Why Aren't Probiotics Killed in Your Stomach (acid)

limitme

New member
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Are alot of good bacteria killed when you eat them (in the form of probiotics) by your stomach acid?

If not, why not?
 

D Bergy

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
The short answer is that a lot of the probiotic contents are killed by stomach acid.

They normally recommend taking them on an empty stomach with water. Your stomach has a mechanism that releases water rather quickly, so that helps more of bacteria survive.

Dan
 

limitme

New member
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Original Poster
The short answer is that a lot of the probiotic contents are killed by stomach acid.

They normally recommend taking them on an empty stomach with water. Your stomach has a mechanism that releases water rather quickly, so that helps more of bacteria survive.

Dan
hmm. I guess it makes sense then for vitamineral green to have awesome probiotics in it. since it is an alkaline product, that might help more to pass through alive.

Enzymes (optimum absorption +)
• Protease • Amylase • Lipase • Cellulase • Bromelain • Papain • Alpha-Galactosidase

Probiotics:
HealthForce™ NSO Blend:

Atherobactor agilisA. citreusA. globiformisA. leuteusA. simplexAceinetobactor calcoacetiusAzotobacter calcoaceticusAz. chroococcumAz. paspaliAZosirillum brasilienseAzo. lipoferumBacillus brevisB. marceransB. pumilusBrev stationisKurthia zipffiPhanerochaete chrysosporiumStreptomyces fradiaeS. cellulosaeS. griseoflavus

HealthForce™ Lactobacillus Blend:

Lactobacillus plantarumLactobacillus bulgaricusLactobacillius paracaseiLactobacillus rhamnosusLactobacillus salivariusStreptococcus thermophilus
 

jfh

perpetual student
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Your stomach acid is your immune system's first line of defense. However, when we get older (40+) our body does not produce as much. This is why so many people have digestive problems. People choose to use apple cider vinegar, digestive bitters, enzymes, etc while eating, when they discover they have problems.

Stomach acid's purpose is more than digestion. It will kill most all pathogens, both good and bad.

My preference is to always take probiotics WITH food, even if they are enteric coated. I feel that they benefit by hiding with the food. Water does help to dilute the acids though, so following the bottle's label is probably best. When in doubt, take with food.

Bye the way, this is one reason why it is not good to drink anything while eating, unless it is water containing and acid such as apple cider vinegar.
 

mommysunshine

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Oct 23, 2010
Location
Sunny, tropical, CA.
I get confused with taking probiotics too because I typically have some type of antimocroblal agent at each meal whether it's oregano, garlic, onion, coconut oil, or cinnamon. What a waste to take a probiotic if they get killed off before hitting the colon.
 

saved1986

In seaerch of spicy food
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
get the probiotics that are enteric coated so the capsule dissolves in the intesting.
 

u&iraok

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May 22, 2009
Location
In my head
Dr. Mercola says to take probiotics:

"20 minutes before meals otherwise the stomach acid tends to destroy 10-25% of the probiotic."
 

jfh

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Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Dr. Mercola says to take probiotics:

"20 minutes before meals otherwise the stomach acid tends to destroy 10-25% of the probiotic."
I disagree. Stomach acid is lowest following a meal, not before it. Lactobacillus is one that is pretty resistant to the acids though. Yogurt is good for probiotics, because it is slightly alkaline.

The pH of an empty stomach is about 1 or 2. The pH of a stomach after a meal is 4 or 5 because the gastric juices have been diluted by the food. The higher the pH, the more bacteria will survive the journey to the small intestine. The more that survive the better your ecology will be. Most of the bacteria that enter our bodies in and on our food, air, water are killed by the gastric juices and acids from our mouth, esophagus, and stomach. It’s one of our bodies defense mechanisms to protect us from pathogenic bacteria that exist everywhere. To be a probiotic, a bacteria must be resistant to gastric, bile, and pancreatic juices in order to survive the trip and arrive in the small intestine alive and able to do its job. Lactobacillus is one of them that is resistant to the acids.

http://www.optimallivingfoods.com/content/probiotics
 

DMCyrus

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May 2, 2011
Location
Michigan
What about using a powdered form of probiotic, blended with prebiotics and enzymes? I mix it in my protein shake in the morning.

Dawn
 

RobJr11

New member
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
The count of the probiotic is important too

If the count of your good bacteria is low such as 1 billion then yes, your stomach acid with destroy that very quickly and its almost like you didn't take anything at all.

But if your count is 8 billion or higher then it will destroy some but not enough to prevent you from gaining the benefits of the probiotic. Also if you get an acidophilus with a coating on it made for the stomach acid then you will get the most out of your probiotic.
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
They are tough little buggers and generally enough survive to maintain health. Its antibiotics that they can't stand up to very well.

enteric coated products are great if it is a concern for you. Also the higher the bacterial count in them the better they will survive overall. This is why I like VSL#3
 

JanH

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Location
California
"I disagree. Stomach acid is lowest following a meal, not before it. Lactobacillus is one that is pretty resistant to the acids though."

jfh, can you explain? I always though stomach acid was secreted to digest the food. Why would it be lower following a meal? You may well be right, it just doesn't make sense to me.
 

jfh

perpetual student
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Why is stomach acid lower following a meal? It is a matter of dilution. It is the same principle that makes people believe it is not good to have a drink with meals. I mean like tea or water. It dilutes the enzymes required for digestion. I think the only drink worthy of a meal is red wine or water with apple cider vinegar. Just a preference.

Yes. Stomach acid grows stronger when we eat and some is always retained in the stomach otherwise. But it is diluted when we drink and/or eat. Stomach acid production declines when we get older - about 40 and on. So you will find many probiotic bottle labels say with meal, or if coated, at any time.

Bacteria like sugar. Both good and bad bacteria. Yogurt is good, because it comes with its own sugar, lactose. You can only make water kefir, if you add a lot of sugar. Milk kefir already has a source of sugar. So recognize this when you take probiotics. Milk, if you can handle it, or carbs.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Involvement of gut microbial fermentation in the metabolic alterations occurring in n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids-depleted mice
Conclusions
the changes in the gut microbiota composition induced by Fructooligosaccharides are different depending on the type of diet. We show that Fructooligosaccharides may promote lactobacilli and counteract the catabolic status induced by n-3 PUFA depletion in mice, thereby contributing to restore efficient fat storage.
Interesting to see that you can improve your omega 3 ratio by increasing your intake of Fructooligosaccharides. It's not that they actually contain omega 3 but they do encourage the production of butyrate which does in the colon what vitamin d does in the rest of the digestive system and that is act as an anti inflammatory agent. So by reducing your inflammatory status you spare the need to use omega 3 to resolve inflammation.

article on the topic here.
Prebiotics may restore metabolic alterations linked to omega-3 poor diets
 

breelion50

New member
Joined
Jul 30, 2011
I know it is difficult to know what kinds of bacterial and yeast strains and their volume exist in any kefir mix in a household. We can only hope that we have a robust and diverse bacterial/yeast mix and that we can keep it that way in how we make the kefir and age it. I make my own kefir and it has surely helped many people including myself but I still have questions that need to be answered so that I am not giving out incorrect information. Can anyone help?

My questions are these.

1. When one drinks kefir, it makes sense that we are only drinking the byproducts [metabolites] of the kefir grains, not the live bacteria and yeasts themselves. Is this true? If we are not drinking the live organisms themselves we can't really call this a "living food". If bacteria and yeasts can break free from the grain matrix and we digest them, how many and what kinds of bacteria/yeasts can we swallow? Perhaps we should be "eating" grains instead of drinking kefir elixor?

2. Since kefir is a liquid it cannot be enteric coated. So which bacteria/yeast strains can typically survive gastric juices and get to where they need to be in order to derive benefit?

3. Therapeutically speaking, how much kefir (milk or water grain-based) should one be drinking per day? What is the best time to ingest this stuff - before eating a meal or afterwards? How long before or after?

4. Is there any way at all that one can have their kefir tested for which strains and their corresponding volumes to be known? I can see this being a medical benefit for doctors prescribing probiotics - if they know exactly what ratios exist in the grains and/or in the elixor, they can prescribe a therapeutic kefir mixture that targets specific ailments. Maybe, maybe not.

Thanks to everyone who can help me with these questions
 

jfh

perpetual student
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
I think I can answer number 1 and maybe number 2.

I don't care if you are talking about milk or water kefir. The kefir is of no use until it is cultured. Cultured means that bacteria is formed (like with yogurt and sauerkraut). I don't know about yeast. I do not think kefir would contain any yeasts. Bacteria reproduces fairly quickly, so there will be a lot of probiotics when you are ready to drink it. The bacteria thrive in a sugar environment, which helps them to propagate. Both good and bad bacteria love sugar. The grains attract the good bacteria, so you don't have to worry about spoilage. However, the kefir will not last too long, because when the sugar is digested by them, they begin to die. Using milk, the bacteria thrive on lactose in the milk. Milk is alkaline, so drinking a glass (about 6 ounces) will help dilute the stomach acid. With water kefir, you have to add a lot of sugar for the culturing. But again, by the time you are ready to drink it, the sugar is gone. Once again, the water will help to dilute the stomach acids. It is the same for any liquid that you drink with your meals. The stomach acids are diluted.
 

Gornzilla

New member
Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Slain probiotics aren't a big deal

Joseph Neu of the University of Florida School of Medicine and his colleagues reviewed several studies that compared health impacts using live microbes versus those that had first been killed by heat or ultraviolet radiation. The dead bugs were just as effective as live ones, they report, but “considerably safer for the host.” For instance, they appeared less likely to provoke an overzealous immune response.

One study worked with Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG, better known as LGG. Researchers administered high doses of the bacterial strain to human cells that normally line the interior surface of the gut. When stimulated in a way that simulated the presence of a pathogen, the gut cells revved up a bigger inflammatory response than when the probiotics were absent. Both live and dead LGG induced fairly comparable responses — ones that would be expected to improve the gut’s ability to fight infection.

Then the researchers repeated the experiment, this time with gut cells that appeared healthy — i.e. not under siege by pathogens. Here, live LGG triggered significant inflammation. Which is not a beneficial response, since healthy cells might be slammed by deadly chemical shrapnel unleashed by immune cells. A similarly big dose of dead LGG caused only mild inflammation.
 


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