Vitamin D3 During Pregnancy

Ted_Hutchinson

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Hollis and Wagner are the experts on vitamin D in pregnancy.
They found that women around Charleston required levels above 40ng/ml 100nmol/l were needed to meet the mothers needs during pregnancy but in order to supply vitamin d replete milk 25(OH)D levels around the 60ng/ml level was required. Around latitude 32 N that took the mothers they tested around 6400iu/daily so further north it's likely to be higher.
 

jbo

New member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Thanks for the information
My wife is 4 months pregnant and taking a prenatal vitamin right now. Not sure I want her to take any other supplements and since the best source of Vitamin D is the fun I'll talk her into getting into the sun more often hopefully.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2009
DEC. 6, 1947 Vitamin-D Requirements in Pregnancy

Vitamin-D Requirements in Pregnancy
SIR,-Dr. L. J. Harris is to be congratulated on his admirable
survey (Nov. 1, p. 681) of the present state of our knowledge as
to vitamins. I venture, however, to question the accuracy of
one of his statements: ' For nursing and expectant mothers
1,000-2,000 i.u. [vitamin D] daily may be prescribed.1.."I
made a search of the literature on this subject about a year ago;
I found only vague and contradictory statements. The following two quotations from recent authoritative textbooks are
typical: McCune' states that during pregnancy " an amount of
vitamin D equal to that contained in 5 teaspoonfuls of cod-liver
oil-that is, 1,700 i.u.-may be required in addition to a high
calcium intake to prevent a negative balance and guarantee
calcium retention." Shohl2 writes: " 400 units of vitamin D and
1 quart of milk daily should be included in the diet of pregnant
women." No experimental evidence is brought forward in
support of either of these statements.
I have recently completed a four-year survey of normal
pregnancy in the out-patient department of the City of London
Maternity Hospital. Some of the biochemical findings have
been published.3 They cover 226 48-hour calcium and phosphorus balances at various stages of pregnancy. They would
seem to show that doses of vitamin D smaller than 10,000 i.u.
per day have no influence whatever on calcium and phosphorus
metabolism and that doses considerably larger than this (up to
36,000 units per day) exert a definite influence only if the
calcium intake is above 1.5 g. per day in the early months and
later 2 g.
This subject is a difficult and complex one. My findings, to
be conclusive, must be confirmed on a larger number of cases.
But this is not a matter of purely academic interest. It concerns
us all-vitaily. Until further experimental evidence, adequate
and incontrovertible, is made available, I submit that we should
play for safety. In a climate like that of England every
pregnant woman should be given a supplement of vitamin D in
doses of not less than 10,000 i.u. per day in the first 7 months,
and 20,000 i.u. during the 8th and 9th months.
-I am, etc.,
Como, Italy. E. OBERMER
 

bipolarmom

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Interesting! I will probably start vitamin D again after 12 weeks. I'm trying to be as careful as possible in the first trimester.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Pardon? :-|
I don't understand you or what you are saying. Don't you understand the importance of vitamin D in absolutely every aspect of you body and that of your baby. Denying adequate vitamin D status at any point is bad enough but in the vital first few weeks seems particularly gross to me.
 

bipolarmom

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
I don't understand you or what you are saying. Don't you understand the importance of vitamin D in absolutely every aspect of you body and that of your baby. Denying adequate vitamin D status at any point is bad enough but in the vital first few weeks seems particularly gross to me.
And you know I am deficient in vitamin D how, exactly? It is in my prenatals that I am taking, and I get out in the sun as much as possible. I would love to know your technique for knowing what someone is or isn't getting in their body based on seeing them on a message board. I have one perfectly healthy, smart, happy child already. Same prenatal vitamins with him, and my health is the most important thing to me during pregnancy. So your opinion that I am somehow harming my child is incorrect.

My vitamin D levels are fine, as I supplemented before pregnancy to get them to a good level. I prefer to avoid putting high amounts of anything into my body during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. My midwife agrees that this is the best choice. But, thanks for your completely unnecessary opinion on my health, random man I've never met before!
 

kind2creatures

...elusive dreamer
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Location
USA
Original Poster
I prefer to avoid putting high amounts of anything into my body during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.
Many suggestions are given by very knowledgeable folks here, and I appreciate all of them. However, I agree with you because my first and foremost advice to anyone, it to follow your heart when it comes to your health and the health of those in your family. If you're not comfortable with a recommedation, then don't follow it. You can always consider it in a future situation if desired. :)
 

jbo

New member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Interesting! I will probably start vitamin D again after 12 weeks. I'm trying to be as careful as possible in the first trimester.
I think you are making a wise choice your first 12 weeks. If anything walking 30 minutes a day in the sun along with your prenatal vitamins in my opinion are enough. You can also eat foods high in vitamin D, but I agree with you that I would personally stay away from an additional supplement especially the first trimester.

Here's a list of foods highest in vitamin D
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000102000000000000000.html

pregnancy risk with taking dosage of 4,000 IU
http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20100504/high-doses-of-vitamin-d-may-cut-pregnancy-risk
 

Ted_Hutchinson

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2009
I think you are making a wise choice your first 12 weeks. If anything walking 30 minutes a day in the sun along with your prenatal vitamins in my opinion are enough. You can also eat foods high in vitamin D, but I agree with you that I would personally stay away from an additional supplement especially the first trimester.

Here's a list of foods highest in vitamin D
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000102000000000000000.html

pregnancy risk with taking dosage of 4,000 IU
http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20100504/high-doses-of-vitamin-d-may-cut-pregnancy-risk
This time of year in the northern hemisphere MOST people are vitamin D deficient or insufficient therefore the sooner the vitamin D deficiency is corrected the less damage will occur. Leaving vitamin D repletion to the later stages of pregnancy is far too late.
Anyone who thinks that food provides a useful amount of vitamin D is frankly ignorant of the amounts of vitamin D required for healthy living.
Food can only, at best, provide 10% of daily needs.
Similarly walking in the midday sun will be helpful but most people ONLY exposure less than 20% of skin surface and that is the same skin that is exposured throughout the day.
Vitamin D will only be created around midday so the rest of the day that newly minted vitamin d is being degraded/processed, by UVA, on into suprasterols the body doesn't use.

If you want to make vitamin d from sunshine you need to expose ALL your skin surface to UVB and then COVER THAT SKIN to protect the vitamin d and allow time for it to be absorbed into the body.

Only avoid vitamin d in the first semester is your aim is to ensure the maximum harm to the new baby occurs.

Remember the work Wagner did with 4000iu during pregnancy was done at Charleston latitude 32N if you live further north than Charleston you will probably require more vitamin d as less will come from sunshine.
 

bipolarmom

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
This time of year in the northern hemisphere MOST people are vitamin D deficient or insufficient therefore the sooner the vitamin D deficiency is corrected the less damage will occur. Leaving vitamin D repletion to the later stages of pregnancy is far too late.
Anyone who thinks that food provides a useful amount of vitamin D is frankly ignorant of the amounts of vitamin D required for healthy living.
Food can only, at best, provide 10% of daily needs.
Similarly walking in the midday sun will be helpful but most people ONLY exposure less than 20% of skin surface and that is the same skin that is exposured throughout the day.
Vitamin D will only be created around midday so the rest of the day that newly minted vitamin d is being degraded/processed, by UVA, on into suprasterols the body doesn't use.

If you want to make vitamin d from sunshine you need to expose ALL your skin surface to UVB and then COVER THAT SKIN to protect the vitamin d and allow time for it to be absorbed into the body.

Only avoid vitamin d in the first semester is your aim is to ensure the maximum harm to the new baby occurs.

Remember the work Wagner did with 4000iu during pregnancy was done at Charleston latitude 32N if you live further north than Charleston you will probably require more vitamin d as less will come from sunshine.
And you expect women to take your advice over that of a midwife, trained in prenatal care?

If not taking extremely high doses of vitamin d was so harmful then I assume most babies would be unwell at birth. To act like not taking your advice is going to do irreversible damage is silly. Ultimately I run everything by my midwife and make the choice I feel is best for my child. If those choices were in any way harmful, I think I would've seen that by this point with my three year old.

I will stick with what I feel comfortable with at this point, prenatals, Probiotics, and fish oil, with healthy eating. Women's bodies are designed to nurture babies and I have no doubt in my body's ability to do so.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2009
And you know I am deficient in vitamin D how,
BECAUSE you are most likely like everyone else. ALL the most recent research finds that MOST people have LOW vitamin D status and the standard that they are regarding as sufficient are much lower than is safe or sensible. NATURALLY if humans lived outdoor lives wear little if any clothing we would attain and maintain levels around 60ng/ml Most people these days have level around 15~25ng/ml and only if they use an EFFECTIVE STRENGTH vitamin D of around 5000iu daily will levels be the natural levels human DNA evolved to work best with.

exactly? It is in my prenatals that I am taking, and I get out in the sun as much as possible.
Exactly YOU are doing what most people do. So why do you think you will be any different from most people. The fact you call yourself BIPOLARMUM is a hint you suffer from depression and thus suffer chronic inflammation in the brain and thus use up your vitamin D faster than most people.

would love to know your technique for knowing what someone is or isn't getting in their body based on seeing them on a message board.
absolutely not you simply have to apply common sense. As most people are vitamin D insufficient it is only the exceptional people who are vitamin D replete therefore it is safer to assume people are insufficient than they are vitamin D replete.

I have one perfectly healthy, smart, happy child already. Same prenatal vitamins with him, and my health is the most important thing to me during pregnancy. So your opinion that I am somehow harming my child is incorrect.
The trouble is our standards of what is a happy healthy child have changed over the years. We now accept that children are born with flat heads, require dental treatment, and will get asthma ALL these are signs their mother was Vitamin D deficient and they didn't get sufficient vitamin D in their early years.

My vitamin D levels are fine, as I supplemented before pregnancy to get them to a good level.
Well it's not problem getting a 25(OH)D and proving the fact. I doubt you are right I doubt your level is anything like 50ng/ml 125nmol/l There is not much point in arguing with people who won't listen to the most recent science and think they know it all.

I prefer to avoid putting high amounts of anything into my body during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.
BUT the amounts we are talking about are less than a quarter of the amount your skin surface would naturally create if given the chance. Why do you think a quarter of the amount you DNA thinks is appropriate is adequate.
Why do you think you know better than your DNA?
My midwife agrees that this is the best choice
But the fact is that health professionals have been wrong for the last 50 years and haven't changed their minds despite the fact that all the research shows that the current amounts in prenatal vitamins keep people vitamin D deficient.
Show me the research that proves the amount of vitamin d in prenatal vitamins raises status to the amount human DNA functions best with and I'll believe you but that evidence isn'tavailable.


But, thanks for your completely unnecessary opinion on my health, random man I've never met before!
You don't have to believe me. Just get yourself a 25(OH)D TEST and you'll find out what I am saying is nothing but the truth.
Take 5000iu daily as soon as you can for 3 months test again and you'll see for yourself how your midwife needs re-education.
Get real.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2009
And you expect women to take your advice over that of a midwife, trained in prenatal care?
Yes If you aren't interested in correcting the vitamin/mineral deficiency states that underlie most chronic conditions I don't see why you are posting on an alternative medicine website.
Antibiotic Prescribing for Children, BCBSM, 2009

Why on earth do all these kids need so many antibiotics if they are not vitamin D deficient?

Why do we not understand the damage that antibiotics cause to immune function?
We know that farmers use antibiotics to fatten their lifestock, Do you want your children to become obese in later life because they were pumped full of antibiotics while children.

Health professionals keep people vitamin D deficient so they are dependent on medical services. If you raised your vitamin D levels to the natural levels human DNA evolved to function best with you could reduce your medicine usage. I don't take any pharmaceuticals now and I have a bipolar diagnosis.
 

bipolarmom

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Are you kidding me? My child has been fed healthy food from 6 months, was breastfed until 34 months, has never been ill, has never been on antibiotics, didn't have a flat head, learned everything right on time, is skinny, laughs all the time, and is smarter than many of his peers. Clearly I have not done anything detrimental to his health, either in pregnancy or after his birth. In fact, I have only ever done the things proven to be best for him, extended breastfeeding, baby lead weaning, baby wearing, skin to skin contact, gentle discipline. He was not pumped full of tons of vaccines from birth. He plays in the dirt, he has a great immune system. I see plenty of kids who are sick all the time but mine isn't one of them. He is in great health because he is my number one priority. So, don't assume that you know anything about me or my son.

It is not that I think I know everything. It's that I am uncomfortable doing ANYTHING without first talking to my midwife about it. Seeing as my first appointment isn't until May 7th, no I will not do something just because I saw it on the Internet. I will talk to her about all of these things only then and ask her when she feels it is safe to begin any additional supplements.

It is my right to do only what I feel comfortable with. Reading something online doesn't make it fact, so no, I will not be doing anything without getting recommendations from someone who actually gives a damn about me and my unborn child.

I am on this site because it has been very helpful toward me and my mood disorders. But it is not particularly helpful to attack someone personally for their personal choice. If you think that method is going to help you change someone's mind, you are incorrect. Perhaps showing some sensitivity and presenting just information instead of insulting people would help them to actually care about what you have to say. Maybe a friendlier approach would've been better?

Also, midwives are not medical professionals and they don't give out medication. I am doing a home birth and her only role is to support me in bringing my child into the world naturally, in the comfort of my home.

And I'm not on medication. I was on a combination of vitamins and supplements that had me in a healthy state of mind and med-free. Which, obviously is a priority for me which is why I am going to see how many of them I can get back on once I meet with my midwife on May 7th, and to be back on most of them postpartum. So, again, you clearly don't know much about me just by reading my response on here. I do not take medication. I live a healthy lifestyle and my babies are the most important thing in the world to me. Hence why I will not just blindly do something because I read it on the Internet. I need to know 100% that it is okay and your posts on here alone are not enough to confirm that for me.
 

jbo

New member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Anyone who thinks that food provides a useful amount of vitamin D is frankly ignorant of the amounts of vitamin D required for healthy living.
Food can only, at best, provide 10% of daily needs.
Similarly walking in the midday sun will be helpful
It's one thing to take a vitamin that may be healthy for you, it's another thing to say if you don't you are being unhealthy. The reason I say this is that I have never Centenarian indicating that they made it to be 100 years old from taking vitamin D pills. If anything studies show that the people who live the longest do not take supplements at all. So I'm not sure how health is being defined?

I take vitamin D3 every day and I agree that most people have deficiencies. It makes complete sense that our ancestors spent more time in the sun and ate foods high in vitamin D3. So I can buy off that our society has a vitamin D problem.

I just don't buy that somebody is unhealthy just becuase they don't want to pop a vitamin D3 pill. If I'm wrong then I'm dying to read about a single person who will state their longevity is do to D3 supplement.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Are you kidding me?
Absolutely not.

The sooner you understand that health professionals can only give you advice and information based on CONSENSUS MEDICAL OPINION the sooner you realise you have to think for yourself and act in your own and your child's best interests.

Following consensus medical opinion is the very reason that obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease incidence is at an all time high. Consensus medical opinion is business and business means making money. It is not putting your personal or your child's best interests first.

We are a NATURAL Health forum and trying to achieve what the human body does NATURALLY is what this forum is all about. Which is why, if you want the best for your child you will ensure your body is able to supply vitamin D replete breast milk, It will do that if you take 6400iu/daily vitamin D3 and live around latitude 32. You may need more further north.

You midwife will not tell you that because it is not consensus medical opinion but it's easy enough for you to find out for yourself.
 

jbo

New member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Ted
Just to correct the statement about kids being born with flat heads is incorrect. I'm by no means a pregnant expert, but I've gone through 3 books now on pregnancy and Brachycephaly (Flat head Syndrome) and this is caused by pressure on one area of an infant’s head over time. It started In 1992 from the American Academy of Pediatrics launched the Back to Sleep Campaign. This has saved lifes, but at the sametime you will have more babies with flat heads.
 

bipolarmom

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Absolutely not.

The sooner you understand that health professionals can only give you advice and information based on CONSENSUS MEDICAL OPINION the sooner you realise you have to think for yourself and act in your own and your child's best interests.

Following consensus medical opinion is the very reason that obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease incidence is at an all time high. Consensus medical opinion is business and business means making money. It is not putting your personal or your child's best interests first.

We are a NATURAL Health forum and trying to achieve what the human body does NATURALLY is what this forum is all about. Which is why, if you want the best for your child you will ensure your body is able to supply vitamin D replete breast milk, It will do that if you take 6400iu/daily vitamin D3 and live around latitude 32. You may need more further north.

You midwife will not tell you that because it is not consensus medical opinion but it's easy enough for you to find out for yourself.
You are clearly not reading my full posts and are only taking away what you want to read in it. So, I am done with you. Stress, is also uneccessary during pregnancy. So I honestly don't have to deal with thick-headed people that just want to argue.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Ted
Just to correct the statement about kids being born with flat heads is incorrect. I'm by no means a pregnant expert, but I've gone through 3 books now on pregnancy and Brachycephaly (Flat head Syndrome) and this is caused by pressure on one area of an infant’s head over time. It started In 1992 from the American Academy of Pediatrics launched the Back to Sleep Campaign. This has saved lifes, but at the sametime you will have more babies with flat heads.
It's strange then that you can find the same condition in vitamin D deficient mice. Some get flathead some get rickets. You prove to me that babies with flat heads aren't vitamin D deficient or haven't been throughout pregnancy/lactation and I'll consider your evidence. Until then I will continue to believe that it's most likely that vitamin D deficiency in early years contributes to many of the structural problems that increasingly affect large numbers of our younger people.

If the cause you state were the WHOLE truth then this condition would be a lot more frequent. There is a reason why some kids have this condition and not others. Vitamin D deficiency is the most likely reason. Common Sense. It regulates the uptake of calcium required for strong bones. If bones are soft they are more likely to become misshapen.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2009
So I honestly don't have to deal with thick-headed people that just want to argue.
You took the words right out of my mouth but I was too polite to say what I was thinking.

There is absolutely no justification whatever for anyone remaining vitamin D deficient or insufficient during pregnancy or lactation. Shame on you.
 

bipolarmom

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
You took the words right out of my mouth but I was too polite to say what I was thinking.

There is absolutely no justification whatever for anyone remaining vitamin D deficient or insufficient during pregnancy or lactation. Shame on you.
Mhm, and if you bothered to read my replies you would see that the plan is to go on it after running it by my midwife in a few weeks. But, clearly you know everything and anyone who doesn't blindly follow your advice right away is wrong.

If I had wanted to take advice from someone who thought their way was the only right way, I would've gone to my doctor.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Mhm, and if you bothered to read my replies you would see that the plan is to go on it after running it by my midwife in a few weeks. But, clearly you know everything and anyone who doesn't blindly follow your advice right away is wrong.

If I had wanted to take advice from someone who thought their way was the only right way, I would've gone to my doctor.
You seem determined NOT to use your own common sense.
Because vitamin D repletion is NOT consensus medical opinion most health professionals will not and CANNOT (for legal/insurance reasons) provide you with the best information for your and your babies best interests. They can only tell you what is consensus medical opinion not what actually works and what actually is common sense.

I'm sorry you aren't prepared to read the research yourself, or get yourself 25(OH)D tested or invest in the few $ that is required for 5000iu vitamin D supplements. but that is your choice and you have to live with the consequences. Safety is trying to do what is natural and the human body did not evolve wearing clothes or living indoors. Our skin is set to create up to 20,000iu daily vitamin D3. 5000iu is a pittance but a significant amount and will meet your and your babies basic needs. 25(oh)d testing will show what I say is correct and works out in practice. You can show the results to your midwife and your doctor. It's about time they and you learnt what actually happens in practice.
 

bipolarmom

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Actually, midwives are the natural approach to pregnancy. I don't expect a man to know that anyway. My midwife recommended me against vaccines, against circumcision, encouraged breastfeeding up to any beyond 2 years, encouraged co-sleeping, and encouraged no interventions in labour. That is NOT standard medical advice, and they are not required to only give standard medical advice. My doctor would have me deliver on my back in the hospital, with pain killers and unneccessary cutting. A midwife's job is to provide the most natural approach. Do some research. Midwives are totally separate in Canada from doctors and other prenatal care, and do not follow the doctors' rules.

And no, I am just determined to verify I am not going to harm my baby in any way. You seem to think that anyone who chooses not to follow you blindly is dumb. That is a very arrogant outlook. You really aren't too much different than the doctors that you hate so much.

My midwife very well may say yes, take vitamin d drops. Until she says that, I am not going to take any chances. Just accept that and move on, my pregnancy does not have any impact on your life and your advice is not a good subsitute for advice from the only person I trust with my child's health.
 


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