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� #106
Old 05-02-2006, 05:05 PM
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Iggy,

I don't recall who was in command during the North African invasion, but we got in a whole lot of trouble and Eisenhower came in a fired 'em and put Patton (my spell checker just doesn't like my spelling of the guy ) in charge. Patton turned things around quickly. So I was under his command up through the formation of the third army for the onslaught in Italy following the completion of the North African fun and games. He was bombastic but very fair and competent in my view. I really admired the guy. He again pulled our chestnuts out of the fire in Italy when General Clark was about to loose it for us by being too conservative.
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� #107
Old 05-02-2006, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
"Mask and respirator use is considered to be the very last in a series of activities that may be more effective in reducing the spread of flu," said E. John Gallagher, chairman of emergency medicine at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York.
In other words if all else fails try wearing a mask.

No, in other words, don't be an idiot. Wash your hands frequently, keep your immune system as robust as you can and wear a mask when in the presence of others, particularly those not prudent enough to wear a mask themselves.

Quote:
3M and Kimberly-Clark Corp. are the two largest U.S. producers of medical masks. 3M's plants "have been working 24-7 for some time now," said Jacqueline Berry, a company spokeswoman.
Would seem someone is making money here.

Not as much money as MLM'rs selling colloidal silver.

Quote:
N95 respirators, which cost $1 to $3 apiece, are designed to filter out 95 percent of particles that measure about 0.3 micrometers, or thousandths of a meter, in diameter. Influenza viruses range in size from 0.08 to 0.12 micrometers, though they are often clumped together or stuck to other airborne debris.
This says that the virus can easily get through the mask, but they just have to be careful not to bump their head.

It says that? Isn't 0.3 SMALLER than 0.08 to 0.12 micrometers? If an N95 mask can filter out 95% of particles as SMALL as 0.3, then it can filter out particles as BIG as [0.08 to 0.12] influenza viruses.

Quote:
During an epidemic, surgical masks would be most useful for preventing infected people from coughing virus-laden droplets of saliva and mucus into the environment.
You don�t need to wear the mask but rather put one on everyone you think might be infected.

Since you obviously can't mandate that everyone around you wear a mask, you can certainly wear one yourself to keep expelled particles from coming in.
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� #108
Old 05-02-2006, 07:24 PM
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� #109
Old 05-02-2006, 09:02 PM
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Donee, I, too, appreciate your service. Thank you.
� #110
Old 05-02-2006, 09:05 PM
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Actually Rudy most of this depends a lot on what one believes, I am pretty much a conspiratorialist
I do not trust government or other �important individuals� to implicitly tell us the truth. This does not mean that they go around telling outright lies but rather they will neglect to tell the whole truth. For example a pill manufacture will scream from the roof tops the fact that their pills will reduce cholesterol while ignoring weather it really �needs� to be reduced in the first place and barely wispier the fact there pills �could� actually kill you.

Do I believe that there are individuals how are willing to start a pandemic? Yep. There are so called secret societies that are calling for the elimination of millions of us useless eaters.

Then there are the opportunist that will jump at any excuse to try and sell you something be it good bad or indifferent. If they can convince you that wrapping yourself in aluminum foil will protect you from the alien�s then they will sell you aluminum foil.

So it comes down to whom do you want to believe and how much of what they say can you believe.

Also by the way .3 micrometers is actually bigger (by 3 times) the approximate .1 micrometers for the virus. Now in reality the filter material is going to look like a maze labyrinth to the virus and it will probably get stuck in some corner. But on the other hand if the virus takes is time and plans is route carefully it can get through.

[Never assume the obvious to be true.]
� #111
Old 05-03-2006, 05:59 AM
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Do I believe that there are individuals how are willing to start a pandemic? Yep.
This idea is intriguing because how do these diabolical evil ones keep the germs/viruses/yucky stuff from infecting themselves and their loved ones, also?

In the case of say, the Nazis, they could carry out their evil without harming themselves. Likewise, Stalin, Hussein, Pol Pot, etc. But when it comes to something as indiscriminate as a virus, how does one conspire to let it loose on "unnecessary" others without signing one's own death warrant? You mean that in addition to being evil, these perps [all the governments of the world are in on this, remember?] are collectively suicidal?

Quote:
Also by the way .3 micrometers is actually bigger (by 3 times) the approximate .1 micrometers for the virus.
The article said that viruses are 0.08-0.12 micrometers in size, not .1. Whether that's accurate or not, I don't know.

https://www.drgreene.com/21_527.html

Quote:
Viruses are tiny geometric structures that can only reproduce inside a living cell. They range in size from 20 to 250 nanometers (one nanometer is one billionth of a meter). Outside of a living cell, a virus is dormant, but once inside, it takes over the resources of the host cell and begins the production of more virus particles. Viruses are more similar to mechanized bits of information, or robots, than to animal life.

Bacteria are one-celled living organisms. The average bacterium is 1,000 nanometers long. (If a bacterium were my size, a typical virus particle would look like a tiny mouse-robot. If an average virus were my size, a bacterium would be the size of a dinosaur over ten stories tall. Bacteria and viruses are not peers!) All bacteria are surrounded by a cell wall. They can reproduce independently, and inhabit virtually every environment on earth, including soil, water, hot springs, ice packs, and the bodies of plants and animals.
� #112
Old 05-03-2006, 07:26 AM
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What would be most prudent if this epidemic ever did occur would be to take colloidal silver of some sort AND wear face mask and gloves while in public interaction with others. It would also be most prudent to limit your exposure to others. The greater the viral load you come into contact with the greater your risk.

Virus can be deterred with barrior protection but will not offer definative protection with the products available and with barrior protection the risk would still be high in public encounters. Even picking up a carton of milk in the supermarket that was placed there by a carrier could be hazardous. All items would have to be sanitzed before contact.

I think to try to do silver or barrior protection alone would not be prudent.

Industry researchers have gotten pretty good at knowing what kinds of barrior protection works and for what. Wether you can effectively mount that level of protection consistently on your own, and for all members of your family is the question.

Certainly the best defense is isolation, both of the infected and those who wish not to be infected.

Store food, water and medicine.

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� #113
Old 05-03-2006, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
What would be most prudent if this epidemic ever did occur would be to take colloidal silver of some sort AND wear face mask and gloves while in public interaction with others.
If credible evidence is available that colloidal silver is effective against viruses, I'd take it. But, so far, such peer-reviewed, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies have not been forthcoming from the CS crowd.
� #114
Old 05-03-2006, 08:23 AM
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This idea is intriguing because how do these diabolical evil ones keep the germs/viruses/yucky stuff from infecting themselves and their loved ones, also?


First there has been research into making a race or group sensitive �bugs.� How far that that got or what has been developed, don�t know.

But as for protecting themselves one would expect that they would have developed an antidote or they might simply go hide in a cave, or something similar, until it blows over. As far their loved ones are concerned, define loved ones. Might it not be like the terrorist leader who sends his minions out on suicide missions telling them that this is the only way they can get into Allah�s paradise?

Bacteria are one-celled living organisms. The average bacterium is 1,000 nanometers long. (If a bacterium were my size, a typical virus particle would look like a tiny mouse-robot. If an average virus were my size, a bacterium would be the size of a dinosaur over ten stories tall. Bacteria and viruses are not peers!) All bacteria are surrounded by a cell wall. They can reproduce independently, and inhabit virtually every environment on earth, including soil, water, hot springs, ice packs, and the bodies of plants and animals.


Yes viruses are very minuscule teeny tiny little bitty incredibly small miniature things.
So what looks like an impenetrable barrier to us, to them looks like a screen door.

The answer for today�s math question.
To find the average size of .08 to .12 micrometer viruses, add .08 to .12 which equals .2 then divide by 2 giving .1

Tomorrow we will have a pop quiz.
� #115
Old 05-03-2006, 09:50 AM
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To find the average size of .08 to .12 micrometer viruses, add .08 to .12 which equals .2 then divide by 2 giving .1
That's some innerestin' math ya got goin' on there in your feverish mind, Mad Scientist.

Again, with respect to a pandemic, all the governments of the world--corrupt and not-so-corrupt--would have to conspire to make (1) a selective bug--no, a HIGHLY selective bug--and (2) an antidote, intended for them only, for said selective bug.

The chances of such exquisite corroboration among noblemen and despots alike are zip, zilch, nada, non-existent. To say otherwise is to disavow a single good man in all the world.
� #116
Old 05-03-2006, 10:12 AM
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Governments in general have some intelligent people, but overall they make Hollywood's Keystone Cops look like very smart people indeed.

They are too disorganized to pull off anything as complicated as a conspiracy of any kind.

As Gerry would say:

Just my opinion . . . and it is-
� #117
Old 05-03-2006, 08:52 PM
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OKAY! Pop quiz time. Pencils ready. Go.
No looking at you neighbor!

Which numbers are larger?

[ ] a. 30 or 10
[ ] b. 3 or 1
[ ] c. .3 or .1



The chances of such exquisite corroboration among noblemen and despots alike are zip, zilch, nada, non-existent. To say otherwise is to disavow a single good man in all the world.

What are the chances, well hopefully I would like to think that there is not much. But Hitler started with only a few dedicated followers and wound up controlling a country. Currently, world wide, we have a relatively small number of dedicated terrorists yet they have us running around airports barefoot. My point being is something like this does not require a large group of people to make it work. All that is needed is some biological nasty a hand full of dedicated individuals willing to but them lets say a municipal water system and you have an instant pandemic.


Speaking of conspiracies I just spent the last hour and half on line filling out the enrollment form for part D Medicare.
� #118
Old 05-04-2006, 08:47 AM
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To find the average size of .08 to .12 micrometer viruses, add .08 to .12 which equals .2 then divide by 2 giving .1
You've GOT to be pulling my leg.

.08 to .12 includes .09, .10 and .11. Therefore .08 + .09 + .10 + .11 + .12 = .50, which is the number divided by 5 to calculate an average.

No wonder they call you a mad scientist--and they don't mean angry.[/quote]

Quote:
But Hitler started with only a few dedicated followers and wound up controlling a country.
Precisely. One country. A country of countrymen--not a world of divergent, non-countrymen who don't want any other country to get what they have...or don't have.
� #119
Old 05-04-2006, 06:54 PM
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Even if we do it your way, which is not the way to average just two numbers, we still wind up with the same answer of .1 and .1 is smaller then .3

Here are some more numbers to play with:

I finally enrolled in the part D Medicare, not that I really wanted to, but if I didn�t enroll now I would have had to pay a penalty premium latter on. Anyway I did some number crunching on this fantastic plan.
The over the counter cost for the one pill that I take is $61 per month.
The cheapest part D plan that I chose costs me $13.32 per month from social security, plus $15.41 co pay, plus 1/12 of a $250 per year deductible or 20.83 per month. So my grand total per month is $49.56.
That is a savings of $11.44 per month! Gee! I guess I am suppose to be jumping up and down with joy and thanking the government for being so kind and generous and concerned about us by providing such a marvelous program.

The most interesting thing about all of this is, without any help of the government or the insurance company I can get the same one supply of pills from Canada for $32!!!!

So now if anyone would like to borrow my conspiracy hat, complete with the aluminum foil covering, be my guest.

[Invest in America buy a congressman.]
� #120
Old 05-04-2006, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Even if we do it your way, which is not the way to average just two numbers, we still wind up with the same answer of .1 and .1 is smaller then .3
The statement reads ".08 TO (not and) .12," so that means there are five numbers... .08, .09, .10, .11 and .12. Therefore, five numbers are added, then divided by 5 to get an average. Adding .08 and .12 and dividing by two is NOT CORRECT.

Example: The Smith family must drive an average of 250 miles per day to complete their vacation on time. On the first five days, they travel 220 miles, 300 miles, 210 miles, 275 miles and 240 miles. How many miles must they travel on the sixth day in order to finish their vacation on time?

Solution: The sum of the first 5 days is 1,245 miles. Let x represent the number of miles traveled on the sixth day. We get:

If we multiply the divisor by the quotient, we get:

250 � 6 = 1,245 + x
1,500 = 1,245 + x
1,500 - 1,245 = x
x = 255

Answer: The Smith family must drive 255 miles on the sixth day in order to finish their vacation on time.

BTW, the average size of a virus is not relevant to this discussion because the numbers from .08 to .12 are all larger than .03, so that's the end of that. Your crummy math skills cannot make virus smaller. Diverting attention from your poor math skills by discussing Medicare won't make virus smaller, either.
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