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� #31
Old 11-19-2011, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by cyber-junkie View Post
= I know they separate the water but if jfh is correct drinking alkaline water will dilute your stomach acid...I am so confused!
I saw nothing on that photonic site that indicated alkalinity. According to Adam, it makes the water "loving". I would need much more science before buying such a device. Not pseudo-science. I had to sit through those videos Those strawberries would not grow very well, if the water was so alkaline.

You need your stomach acid to digest. Problem? Just eat an hour away from such water. If you don't over-drink that water, your body will adjust the pH back to normal. It might take some time.

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� #32
Old 11-19-2011, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jfh View Post
I saw nothing on that photonic site that indicated alkalinity. According to Adam, it makes the water "loving". I would need much more science before buying such a device. Not pseudo-science. I had to sit through those videos Those strawberries would not grow very well, if the water was so alkaline.

You need your stomach acid to digest. Problem? Just eat an hour away from such water. If you don't over-drink that water, your body will adjust the pH back to normal. It might take some time.
From everything I have read so far, there is only so much you can do to water and have it still be water, most of the "treatments" involve adding minerals in one form or another and the added minerals make the water more alkaline (bringing up the PH) that microhydrin makes it real alkaline about the same as the kangen water I checked once, looks like in the neighborhood of 10+ PH and that's what the ionizers do, splits the water in to an alkaline and acidic, but now I have read about the electrical current in water and I believe the ORP value of water is connected with the current, but from the tests I have done, the current is not a constant with the PH value, I don't know if the ORP is a constant with the PH or not. But it seems that there are lots of ways to get drinking water alkaline and the people with ionizers and heavy mineral water are drinking alkaline water which is probably better for you than an acidic water, but if it dilutes you digestive acids that would seem to be bad...brain overload!!
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� #33
Old 11-19-2011, 12:23 PM
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I've already expressed how I feel about this alkaline is healthy myth.

As you say, you can't really do too much with water other than try to make it pure. Don't trust those snake oil salespeople. Or you can trust them, but I won't.

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Here, in a nutshell, are a few basic facts that I believe anyone with a solid background in chemistry or physiology would concur with:
  • "Ionized water" is nothing more than sales fiction; the term is meaningless to chemists.
  • Pure water (that is, water containing no dissolved ions) is too unconductive to undergo signficant electrolysis by "water ionizer" devices.
  • Pure water can never be alkaline or acidic, nor can it be made so by electrolysis. Alkaline water must contain metallic ions of some kind � most commonly, sodium, calcium or magnesium.
  • The idea that one must consume alkaline water to neutralize the effects of acidic foods is ridiculous; we get rid of excess acid by exhaling carbon dioxide.
  • If you do drink alkaline water, its alkalinity is quickly removed by the highly acidic gastric fluid in the stomach.
  • Uptake of water occurs mainly in the intestine, not in the stomach. But when stomach contents enter the intestine, they are neutralized and made alkaline by the pancreatic secretions � so all the water you drink eventually becomes alkaline anyway.
  • The claims about the health benefits of drinking alkaline water are not supported by credible scientific evidence.
  • "Ionized"/alkaline water is falsely claimed to be an anti-oxidant. It is actually an oxidizing agent, as can be seen by its ability to decolorize iodine (see video)
  • There is nothing wrong with drinking slightly acidic waters such as rainwater. "Body pH" is a meaningless concept; different parts of the body (and even of individual cells) can have widely different pH values. The pH of drinking water has zero effect on that of the blood or of the body's cells.
  • If you really want to de-acidify your stomach (at the possible cost of interfering with protein digestion), why spend hundreds of dollars for an electrolysis device when you can take calcium-magnesium pills, Alka-Seltzer or Milk of Magnesia?
  • Electrolysis devices are generally worthless for treating water for health enhancement, removal of common impurities, disinfection, and scale control. Claims that "ionized" waters are antioxidants are untrue; hypochlorites (present in most such waters) are in fact oxidizing agents.
  • Claims that "water ionizers are approved for use in Japanese hospitals" are misleading: these "approvals" merely attest to the machines' safety � that they will not electrocute you! My understanding is that the Japanese Health Ministry is highly critical of therapeutic claims made for alkaline water.
....
One more thing about the electrolysis of water having very low ion content: because of the very small number of ions in such water, it conducts electric current very poorly, so the process is extremely slow and inefficient. This means that if your water supply is free of dissolved minerals, no significant amount of electrolysis will occur.
......
So buying a "water ionizer" is a very expensive way of obtaining a solution that you could in principle make yourself by diluting some laundry bleach, and perhaps adjusting the pH by adding a weak acid such as lemon juice. But would you want to drink this "eau de Clorox"? Don't try this at home!
......
There are hundreds of web sites offering up misinformation on the dangers of "acidic" and "high ORP" waters (see here, for example) which make statements that are unsupported by scientific evidence.


"The Benefits of Alkaline, Ionized Water" is a typical screed which begins with just enough solid science to create an illusion of credibility, but quickly descends into crackpot physiology and chemistry. And sites such as this one which falsely claim that acidity causes cancer are beyond contempt. Beware of authors such as Hidemitsu Hayashi who claims to be a doctor but reveals his lack of basic medical expertise by endorsing quack remedies.
......
The cheapest and by far the best source of "acidic" water is cranberry juice, which offers the additional benefits of inhibiting the adhesion of bacteria to surfaces in the urinary tract and on dental plaque, increasing the amounts of "good" cholesterol in the blood, and raising the level of plasma antioxidants (the juice's vitamin C content may be a contributing factor here.) See here for a reliable reference.



If you must have "alkaline" water (as unsupported-by-science as I think this is!), try dissolving some baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) in water; this will give you an unpleasant-tasting drink with a pH of around 8.3. You can also purchase overpriced "concentrates" such as AlkaLife Drops that are touted by author/quacks such as Sang Whang whose misinformation-filled writings are not supported by science.


Stephen Lower
B.A. Biochemistry, University of California, Berkeley
Ph.D. Physical Chemistry, University of British Columbia
(SFU Chemistry faculty: 1965-1999)

https://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html
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� #34
Old 11-19-2011, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cyber-junkie View Post
Arrow, so you believe there is science behind this that makes these claims true? I have wondered also about ionic purifiers like the Kangen really work? I know they separate the water but if jfh is correct drinking alkaline water will dilute your stomach acid...I am so confused!
I don't think alkaline water will decrease your stomach acid to any significant level... Just don't drink water with meals... and you shouldn't be drinking water with meals anyway. All I know is that my water after being processed with the Regency tasted really good. I suspect that it structures the water somewhat.

The science with photonic water is demonstrated by how it affects crops as well as plumbing. I recommended a device to a woman not too long ago who had life long eczema and had tried everything already... you name it she had tried it. I told her I couldn't promise anything and since she had already tried everything I could think of I recommended to give the photonic water device a shot. Since money was no object for her she tried the table top unit and she wrote me back several weeks later telling me that her eczema was gone!
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� #35
Old 11-19-2011, 07:27 PM
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Arrow, do you still use the Regency? do/did you feel anything from drinking the water vs bottled water? ie. personal experience.
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� #36
Old 11-20-2011, 09:14 AM
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Re-read post #30. I cant say I felt anything different. I got the regency at the time I was dealing with cancer... so much was going on I cant say what made me feel what.
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� #37
Old 12-04-2011, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cyber-junkie View Post
What about the water ionizers? do they produce better water for your body?

How about ozonated water, is it any better? Is there any science behind the claims that they are better than just filtered water?
I have been drinking alkaline water from a water ionizer for the past three months and have noticed increased energy and fewer headaches. Ionized water has a "smoother" feel to it that is undeniable and doesn't bloat you like regular water due to the fact that it is microclustered so it makes it easier to hydrate with ionized water.

I have also read several books recently on ionized water and an alkaline diet. The books I most recommend are "The Miraculous Properties of Ionized Water" by Bob McCauley and "The pH Miracle Diet" by Dr. Robert O. Young.
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Old 12-04-2011, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by alkalinegirl View Post
I have been drinking alkaline water from a water ionizer for the past three months and have noticed increased energy and fewer headaches. Ionized water has a "smoother" feel to it that is undeniable and doesn't bloat you like regular water due to the fact that it is microclustered so it makes it easier to hydrate with ionized water.

I have also read several books recently on ionized water and an alkaline diet. The books I most recommend are "The Miraculous Properties of Ionized Water" by Bob McCauley and "The pH Miracle Diet" by Dr. Robert O. Young.
Hi alkalinegirl and welcome

I have the ph miracle diet book, but haven't read much of it, I am looking for unbiased scientific info. and in another thread points out that is rare, did one book seem to be a better source of info to you?
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� #39
Old 12-04-2011, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cyber-junkie View Post
Hi alkalinegirl and welcome

I have the ph miracle diet book, but haven't read much of it, I am looking for unbiased scientific info. and in another thread points out that is rare, did one book seem to be a better source of info to you?
Thanks for the welcome

"The Miraculous Properties of Ionized Water" book was packed with very interesting facts about ionized water, but written in a laymans terms way, I don't remember it being very scientific. On the other hand, Dr. Young's book was at times almost too scientific, and is more of an overall wellness guide as it only touches on alkaline water but talks a lot about fruits, vegetables and alkaine-forming exercise. So together they make for a great balance of information

If you are very scientific-minded (I'm not) you can also try doing searches for alkaline ionized water scientific studies as there are several out there. There are also studies on the acidic water from water ionizers which can be used topically, I now clean glass surfaces with it and use it as a facial toner.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:57 PM
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I seek the truth!

There's people on both side, and both have parts that make sense, most of the scientist seem to say structured, clustered water is snake oil but some test seem to suggest otherwise.
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� #41
Old 12-05-2011, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyber-junkie View Post
I seek the truth!

There's people on both side, and both have parts that make sense, most of the scientist seem to say structured, clustered water is snake oil but some test seem to suggest otherwise.
I am a believer through my personal experience and those of my friends and family who have tried it, but I understand there is some contraversy. Don't knock it til you try it I guess Hard to deny the difference in the way I feel when I drink the water and when I don't, and even if I am just privy to the "placebo effect" animals can't be and yet the animal studies that have been run show positive effects...

Also, scientists have tested the water from fresh running streams and found an abundance of negative ions, which is what you will find in alkaline water from an ionizer, as they seek to recreate what is made in nature.
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