The Marshall Protocol, STAY AWAY FROM THIS ONE

shapshftr

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Apr 2, 2006
Don't know if any of you have heard of this protocol before, but in my opinion, it is ridiculous and dangerous. Risks quoted from link below include:

Major risk of Addison Syndrome (5%-25% of CFS that complete the protocol)
Increased risk (100 300%) of Heart Attack
Increased risk (100+%) of Cancer (Breast, Colon and Prostate are well documented)
Increased risk (67+%) of Multiple Sclerosis
Increased risk (400+%) of Diabetes
Increased risk of Depression
Increased risk (500+%) of Osteoarthritis and Osteoporosis
Increased risk of nephrotic syndrome, schizophrenia and severe bipolar disorder.
Increased risk of Hyperparathyroidism
Increased risk of Crohn Disease and Sjogren's syndrome
Increased risk of Rheumatoid Arthritis
Increased risk of Systemic Lupus Erythematosus
May cause fetal and neonatal morbidity and death
Risk of Angioedema

________________________________________

"The Marshall Protocol was developed by Trevor Marshall, PhD, in 2002 to treat certain diseases that involve Th1 immune system dysfunction.

Dr. Marshall's papers describe how numerous Th1 diseases such as sarcoidosis, Lyme disease, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis (among others) are caused by Cell Wall Deficient (CWD) bacteria of various species......

An essential part of the Marshall Protocol is avoidance foods and vitamin supplements containing vitamin D to reduce the level of this hormone which suppresses the immune system......

A key part of the protocol is the establishment of an inflammatory blockade of the hormone Angiotensin II with an Angiotensin Receptor Blocker (ARB), Benicar (olmesartan medoxomil).

The protocol also includes the introduction of carefully, selected low dose antibiotics in a pulsed schedule"......

http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum2/364.html

"Ingested Vitamin D is an immune-suppressant, similar to the function that prednisone performs. Ingested Vitamin D suppresses the action of the VDR (Vitamin D Receptor) and thus turns-off the immune system's Th1 response so it cannot fight the intra-phagocytic bacteria. People feel better in the short-term, but will succumb to the infection more rapidly in the long-run"......

http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum2/4062.html

"The MP coordinates the use of Benicar (Olmesartan medoxomil), and specific, pulsed, low-dose, bacteriostatic, oral antibiotics to enable the immune system to destroy the persistent bacteria [5]. Correctly dosed, Benicar reduces inflammatory cytokine production by blocking the angiotensin II, type I receptors to inhibit, inter alia, the release of tumor necrosis factor-alpha during the Th1 immune reaction"......

http://autoimmunityresearch.org/phase1.pdf

________________________________________


This treatment protocol goes against so many known facts about the importance of Vitamin D it's not even funny. I also do not believe that Vitamin D suppresses the immune system. I wondered what Dr Paul Cheney, who has done much research on CFIDS, Fibro and other such ailments would have to say about this protocol. I found the answer to that.... he seems to be very much against it.

________________________________________

Dr Cheney, MD, writes:

"I'm concerned that an ARB (Angiotensin Receptor Blocker) is being used in CFIDS patients [via MarshallProtocol.com] without an awareness of its effect on "Q."

Big issue [with MarshallProtocol.com]! If you block AT1 with an ARB [like Benicar], down will go your Aldosterone, and down will go your blood volume, and you could be in a heap of trouble [i.e. Addison Syndrome]. ARBs that bind to AT1 will constrict blood volume [which is unhealthy with PWCs].

I'm also concerned that the other receptor [AT2] is being ignored. No one knows what it does. Not even Merck! I suspect that it has an immune effect. An ARB like Benicar selectively binds very tightly to AT1, resulting in a two—to three-fold increase of Angiotensin II, which then binds to the wide-open AT2 receptor. And who knows what kind of immune responses that is setting off. This is just speculation, but I am concerned [over the safe use of Benicar for CFS].

"I don't believe that you can block a regulatory pathway [with Benicar],..... you[MarshallProtocol.com] have no idea what that thing is doing and then hope that down the road everything will be rosy."

________________________________________

Go to the following link to read the bizarre quotes of this Dr Marshall and a nurse on his forum, dodging the question of possible risks of using his protocol, and some facts and links regarding the importance of Vitamin D:

http://lassesen.com/cfids/MarshallProtocolRisks.htm
 

amigo

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May 31, 2008
Marshall Protocol - amazing success stories

The Marshall Protocol is proving to be a very successful treatment for all sorts of chronic disease. The success rates are higher than any conventional treatment can even dream of claiming. Read just some of the success stories thus far:

http://tinyurl.com/2pm37t
http://www.carouselcharts.com/TranscriptRecoveryLAX2.pdf
http://winmlm.neostrada.pl/mp/townsend/Townsend_Letter_May2007.Part2.pdf
http://bacteriality.com/category/interview-patient/

(Oh, did I neglect to say? All these success stories, without exception, only happened because every ill patient eliminated Vitamin D from his/her diet)

And remember this .... it was in 1982 when Drs Barry J. Marshall and J. Robin Warren discovered that ulcers were caused by Helicobacter pyloribacteria and not stress and lifestyle as was previously thought (doesn't say much for the efficacy of prior research that came to the silly conclusions) and they were laughed at by conventional medicine and faced criticism much like the nay-sayer post before this one. In 2005, they won the Nobel Prize in Medicine for their discovery. The same will be repeated for Dr Trevor Marshall, mark my words - they are already laughing at his discoveries surrounding the immunosuppressive effects of the secosteroid we call "Vitamin D" and the effects on the VDR (Vitamin D Receptor) and innate immune system. As with B Marshall and R Warren, T Marshall will have his day in Stockholm.

Here is some information re the Vitamin D discoveries:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/1/prweb639651.htm
http://trevormarshall.com/BioEssays-Feb08-Marshall-Preprint.pdf
http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind/

Having said this, no one ever said Marshall's protocol would be easy. Unfortunately, the immunopathology (herxheimer) is unavoidable. Kill the bacteria and everyone, without exception, feels increased symptomatology from the release of endotoxins. Those with heavy bacterial load and are sicker will likely feel it more and have more difficulty. It takes commitment and compliance. Many don't properly comply (e.g., especially with light exposure) and they pay the price. Those who are committed and compliant will eventually achieve recovery. Good luck!
 

Arrowwind09

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Oct 16, 2007
Hola Amigo,

I've spent some time on lyme forums and it seems that this marshall protocol does not work for everyone. Have you had success with it?

Really, it would scare me to interrupt the Vitamin D pathways.


Can you tell me what this is? Cell Wall Deficient (CWD) bacteria of various species

Hey, and welcome to to the forum.:D
 

amigo

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May 31, 2008
Yes, I've had some success with it, although I'm not yet done. So has someone else I know. The treatment is not easy and takes patience, dedication and compliance. Not everyone has what it takes.

http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum32/1146.html
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum32/1584.html

Vitamin D:
http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind/

Cell wall deficient organisms:
http://bacteriality.com/2007/08/15/l-forms/
http://bacteriality.com/2008/05/26/biofilm/
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum2/2810.html
 

Arrowwind09

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Oct 16, 2007


http://bacteriality.com/2007/08/15/l-forms/

haven't had time to look at all this but I did look at this site.
I see several problems.
Yes, estrogen replacement therapy has caused severe disease but just look at the crap they were giving to women. Not based on lab values for need, not an identical molecule, not balanced with progesterone. Their case is filled with holes.

So then they want you just to automatically shift over into their vit D theory. First of all I am seeing quite a few vit d deficient people. Second of all I have been on high dose vit D for a few weeks and am seeing some good progress in a skin condition.

Off hand it sounds like hooey to me about the vitamin D

Then this one: http://bacteriality.com/2007/08/15/l-forms/
Seems to me that MMS is taking care of many of these type of microbes. A number of lyme people are responding quite well to mms who have lyme. As well as ulcerative colitis, crohns.

And then this one: http://bacteriality.com/2008/05/26/biofilm/
Biofilms are everywhere and not new. Why do some become victims and other don't?
There is a system of treatment for biofilms called phage therapy. They cure the worst MRSA with it and other disease as well. It use to be available in this country until pennicillin happened. Thank god Russia had the foresight to preserve the work.
Those who are most susceptible are those with the weakest immune systems or a system that just can't cope with a particular foreign bug. Why are some people MRSA carriers but never get the mrsa disease?

I will keep my vitamin D, thank you.

I would say that if the Marshall protocol does not cure you it will kill you. I haven't seen any testimonials where people were cured of Lyme with this protocol. If so show me. I have only seen, feeling a bit better and now back to work. Not cured.
 
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SDD1244

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Oct 12, 2008
I've also had successes on the Marshall Protocol. I remember when my specialist first prescribed the treatment for me, I went online and read those same stats you posted. But I never did find any sources to back up those stats and the only thing I did see was that there were many very ill people slowly recovering on this protocol.
 

seanlane

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Jan 26, 2009
Instead of freaking out,study the science behind The Marshall Protocol

I have been on the Marshall Protocol for almost a year and everything from Neuropathy to Bipolar has almost disappeared....i am glad I studied the science which is based on REALITY, not a lot of mis-information about Benicar and Vitamin D....Which is not a nutrient.I think what's really ridiculous is making statements about a science you obviously don't understand.
 

RCannon

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Nov 9, 2008
Location
Peoria
There seems to be some validity to the Marshall approach. The active form of D, the 1,25 form does suppress TH1 but increases TH2. TH1 helps the cellular immunity and macrophage function. See wiki. So a bacteria that could inhibit this would be protecting itself. But the system function is still not well understood.

High levels of 1,25 are caused by the bacteria with no cell wall, inhibiting the Th1 immune response. Getting more d3 from sun or supplements further increases the 1,25 active form via the kidneys, making it worse. So if you have a blood test and find high levels of 1,25 then there could be an issue, if you are suffering from a chronic fatigue type illness (lyme also). So the blood test is important to get.
This is also why Cannell now recommends NOT taking cod liver oil because you get too much of the active form. Vit A and D should be converted as needed in the body in the precise ratio needed.
Cannell also said that high D levels inhibit the immune response to flu shots (when talking about swine flu, 1918 etc).
It's very complex.
 

Arrowwind09

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Oct 16, 2007
I don't know why exactly cod liver oil is falling out of favor. I notice that Mercola has turned against it also after many years of promoting it.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

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May 25, 2009
I don't know why exactly cod liver oil is falling out of favor. I notice that Mercola has turned against it also after many years of promoting it.
Vitamin A toxicity
I suspect the problem has arisen because instead of accepting the fact that CLO is a natural produce, with natural seasonal variations in Vitamin A levels, the makers decided they knew better and took out the variable amounts of natural vit A and sbustituted a STANDARD amount of Synthetic Vit A unfortunately I think the body can tell the difference and sometimes takes exception. In the same way some people can use D2 ergocalciferol and others can't convert it to D3. So Is Vitamin A Toxicity a concern Well it doesn't bother me. I see no reason to get alarmed about reasonable amounts. I do think it's important to have some.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

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May 25, 2009
I don't know why anyone takes Marshal seriously.

Wiki on Trevor Marshall has some history and interesting details.

Dr Davis posted this

If Marshall is right would we find least incidence of chronic disease in folks with 25(OH)D around 50ng?

Would we have evolved pale skins above latitude 40 if the human didn't require 25(OH)D to be above 50ng before breast milk become replete with D3. wouldn't earlier generations have died out before now?

Similarly we would not find peak physical muscular performance at 50ng.

Anyone who believe vitamin D deficiency is not the cause of rickets is simply wrong.

Marshall also believes vitamin D is toxic, despite the fact that we evolved with high levels of it.

He misinterprets the scientific literature to support outlandish claims.

If there is any truth to the theory that L-form bacteria are behind chronic disease, Marshal is doing it a disservice by associating it with these other theories.

There will always be some exceptions to the general rule. That is why we have sexual selection to make sure there is a variation in the gene pool to test out if particular genetic traits have particular advantages in exceptional circumstances. But the general rule is that if our DNA evolved to attain and maintain a natural vitamin D status given full body sun exposure then that is probably the natural level our bodies work best with. Only when we see papers reporting higher incidence of chronic illness at vitamin D status above or around 50ng will I take Marshall seriously.

Just look at the levels of vitamin d given safely to people with MS. The seasonal fluctuation in the number of gadolinium-enhancing lesions determined by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) tend to be fewest at the times when serum 25(OH)D concentrations are highest. Taken together, the data suggest that vitamin D3 may play a role in the regulation of clinical disease activity.

Another analysis of Marshall's work
 

RCannon

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There was another article on Vit D called Vit D- the Antibiotic Vitamin? in Science News a couple years ago and it showed how important D is in immune system function. So I think in general D is very important to have. And Cannell says D and A work together in a precise ratio, and taking active forms of A and/or D can upset this balance (cod liver oil for example) which the body maintains by converting as needed the precursors.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

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May 25, 2009
The vitamin D-antimicrobial peptide pathway and its role in protection against infection.
Vitamin D deficiency has been correlated with increased rates of infection.

Since the early 19th century, both environmental (i.e., sunlight) and dietary sources (cod liver) of vitamin D have been identified as treatments for TB.

The recent discovery that vitamin D induces antimicrobial peptide gene expression explains, in part, the 'antibiotic' effect of vitamin D and has greatly renewed interest in the ability of vitamin D to improve immune function.

Subsequent work indicates that this regulation is biologically important for the response of the innate immune system to wounds and infection and that deficiency may lead to suboptimal responses toward bacterial and viral infections.

The regulation of the cathelicidin antimicrobial peptide gene is a human/primate-specific adaptation and is not conserved in other mammals.

The capacity of the vitamin D receptor to act as a high-affinity receptor for vitamin D and a low-affinity receptor for secondary bile acids and potentially other novel nutritional compounds suggests that the evolutionary selection to place the cathelicidin gene under control of the vitamin D receptor allows for its regulation under both endocrine and xenobiotic response systems.

Future studies in both humans and humanized mouse models will elucidate the importance of this regulation and lead to the development of potential therapeutic applications.


The antibiotic vitamin: deficiency in vitamin D may predispose people to infection Science News, Nov 11, 2006 by Janet Raloff

Antimicrobial peptides and the skin immune defense system.Our skin is constantly challenged by microbes but is rarely infected.
Cutaneous production of antimicrobial peptides (AMPs) is a primary system for protection, and expression of some AMPs further increases in response to microbial invasion.
Cathelicidins are unique AMPs that protect the skin through 2 distinct pathways:
(1) direct antimicrobial activity and
(2) initiation of a host response resulting in cytokine release, inflammation, angiogenesis, and reepithelialization

Cathelicidin dysfunction emerges as a central factor in the pathogenesis of several cutaneous diseases, including atopic dermatitis, in which cathelicidin is suppressed;
rosacea, in which cathelicidin peptides are abnormally processed to forms that induce inflammation;
and psoriasis, in which cathelicidin peptide converts self-DNA to a potent stimulus in an autoinflammatory cascade.

Recent work identified vitamin D3 as a major factor involved in the regulation of cathelicidin.
Therapies targeting control of cathelicidin and other AMPs might provide new approaches in the management of infectious and inflammatory skin diseases.


I really think this is the crucial reason why getting some of your vitamin D made right on the surface of your skin right where it is needed is essential for immune function.
These Cutaneous antimicrobial peptides CAMP genes are incredibly powerful. There are cells on your skin surface that can do the whole business from cholesterol through to the active hormone without bothering liver or kidneys. We wouldn't have evolved this capacity if it hadn't provided evolutionary advantages.

Multiple Health Concerns Surface as Winter, Vitamin D Deficiences Arrive ScienceDaily (Nov. 24, 2009) A string of recent discoveries about the multiple health benefits of vitamin D has renewed interest in this multi-purpose nutrient, increased awareness of the huge numbers of people who are deficient in it, spurred research and even led to an appreciation of it as "nature's antibiotic." more at link well worth reading.
However USE YOUR COMMON SENSE when reading.
There is still much to explore about the mechanisms of action of vitamin D, the potential use of synthetic analogs of it in new therapies, and its role in fighting infection, Why do they want synthetic analogs for new therapies?
Because you can't make money if people can use Over the Counter supplements at $15 for a years supply.

28,000 patients ages 50 or older with no prior history of cardiovascular disease. It found that in patients with very low levels of vitamin D -- compared to those with normal levels -- 77% more likely to die, 45% more likely to develop coronary artery disease, and 78% more likely to have a stroke.SO the safest option is to CORRECT VITAMIN D insufficiency NOW. Don't wait for your doctor, don't wait for new research, obtain a NATURAL 25(OH)D status with a NATURAL amount of vitamin D3 (AT LEAST 5000iu/d) and after 3 months get a 25(OH)D test to check you have actually got above 55ng/ml Only 137.5nmol/l. only if you are seriously above 80ng need you consider reducing the daily amount. UK readers will almost certainly require more but 5000iu/d for 3months will enable you to have a better idea how much your body uses and the sooner you get a reserve of D3 into your system the sooner your body will improve it's immune function.
 

phinat

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Dec 13, 2009
Hello,

I received the laboratory 25OHD result = 9µg/l (very low). So the Doctor prescribed a massive Vit D 600 000 UI in one intake. So, to understand, as I have Hashimoto, I arrived on Autoimmunity Marshall protocol, and was initially seduced (excepted some difficulties : only info on how to start, nothing on how to finish or stop for instance). And Marshall links the immunity illness with low D3, so it was an information that attracted me.

What do you think about this massive dose ?

Is there, or no, a relation between autoimmunity and D3 ? Or, won't a massive dose deteriorate my health ?
 

Arrowwind09

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Oct 16, 2007
Massive doses like this are used in some other countries. I attended a seminar where I found out that such dosage was given to nursing home patients yearly in India. So did you take the dose? How has it affected you?

You can bring up your D3 levels in a more gradual way but your level was sooooo low the doctor probably thought it merrited immediate attention!

Why were you on the Marhall protocol?

I dont know much about Hasimoto's Disease but you may want to look into Iodine supplementation. Search Iodine on www.HealthSalon.org and you may find info regarding iodine and this disease.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

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May 25, 2009
What do you think about this massive dose ?
The form of vitamin D3 doctors use is D2 and this is less effective than D3 the form human body's use. That is one of the reasons the amount they use has to be so much higher.

If you were used to sunlight and spend all day in the sun carefully avoiding burning but getting as much sun as possible it is technically possible to achieve natural intakes of 50,000iu/daily/D3, although for practical purposes it is more reasonable to consider amounts between 10,000~20,000iu the result of daily sun exposure.

A google search for 50,000iu cholecalciferol free shipping produces several options for cheap purchases.

My view is that it's important to get 25(OH)D from the present 9ng/ml to above a safer 55ng/ml The standard advice is to use 50,000iu each week for 8~12weeks then retest to see if this is sufficient. This equals just over 7000iu/daily.
If you were overweight then using the formula 1000iu/daily for each 25lbs body weight may be more effective. Up to 10,000iu/daily is considered absolutely safe even in sunny countries.

Is there, or no, a relation between autoimmunity and D3 ?
People with low vitamin D status particularly in childhood are more likely to develop autoimmune conditions.

Or, won't a massive dose deteriorate my health ?
Having a low vitamin D status leaves you vulnerable to far more adverse consequences than the level human bodies evolved to function with while living near naked outdoors.

I don't think such megadoses are harmfu.

I just don't think they are natural or necessary.

Your hormone system is a complex thing and full of checks and balances and large sudden changes in status lead to periods of fine tuning and adjustments in those counterbalancing actions.

Taking a natural though highish amount of Vitamin D3, equivalent to reasonable daily sun exposure that more than covers your daily needs will lead to 25(OH)D levels rising over a fairly short period but at a rate which allows the fine tuning of the immune function to be achieved at a natural rate.

I prefer to keep my 25(OH)D level both HIGH and STABLE that way I avoid the need for the body to adjust and creating less opportunity for periods where there is an imbalance between the pro/anti inflammatory and pro/anti proliferative forces to lead to trouble.
 

phinat

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Dec 13, 2009
Nice - very comprehensive answer.

Should I understand that a massive dose is better for the me to recover a better body working (excess of D3 will go to stock and then be available for normal use) ? So the level will recover its normality (for example 50 µg/l) within few weeks or months ?

No contraindication with Hashimoto ?

My post wasn't detailed enough (intake proposed is D3 Cholecaciferol).
 

Ted_Hutchinson

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May 25, 2009
I am not a doctor or health professional and my knowledge of Hashimoto is limited to what I have read on Dr Davis's Heartscanblog

From that I gather attention to your thyroid problem with thyroid hormone, wheat elimination, iodine, correction of vitamin D, omega 3 and selenium status will be important. Vitamin D3 and Omega 3 are fundamental to your body's ability to deal with inflammation.

Should I understand that a massive dose is better for the me to recover a better body working (excess of D3 will go to stock and then be available for normal use) ?
To correct deficiency you must take more daily than your body uses daily.
Although I am aware many doctors use megadose 600,000iu as a single injection to raise status quickly.
this will raise status quickly and the immune system will reset it's set point and there will be a period of adjustmen after which status will gradually decline unless a daily supplement regime of effective strength is implemented.

My preferred option, as a non health professional is to use amounts that thehuman body would normally be capable of dealing with, either 50,000iu/weekly or up to 10,000iu/daily, for a period of 8~12 weeks with a retest after that period to ensure that amount was sufficient.
The change in status the slower way would be more gradual but it should replicate the amounts of vitamin d the human body would naturally acquire given outdoor sun exposure during a fine sunny month in Spring/early summer.

So the level will recover its normality (for example 50 µg/l) within few weeks or months ?
I would prefer the readjustment in status over 2~3 months but I don't know how ill you are now or how urgent the treatment needs to be. Your doctor will be better able to make that decision.
 

Arrowwind09

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Oct 16, 2007
I had very low vitamin D levels when I was first tested. Exactly what I did is hard to remember now and it is posted on the forum here somewhere but it was about like this; I took 50,000 IU 3xd for 3 days then went to 50,000 one time a day for a for a total of about 2 weeksday then went to 10,000 IU for several days before I got retested. After about 3 weeks I was tested and my level was 130, originally 20 somthing.

I've settled on 50,000 two times a month and take 5,000 iu most days. My last two checks have been in the 70 and 90 range, which is where I prefer to keep it since I have a cancer history.

If I feel like I am getting sick I up it immediately, but I don't feel like that very often and have nipped it all in the bud by megadosing vitamin d and vitamin c.

Iodine is what you really need to look into. You should be able to get your D levels up quickely whatever way your doc decides to help you. Personally I would not go for the shot. I prefer to make shifts a little slower, and over the course of a few weeks you will be fine. In regards to iodine, Make sure you are not taking medicine for acid stomach. That can really reduce the amount of iodine you absorb from food or from supplements.. HCL is very important for the proper metabolism of iodine. It is fundamental.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

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May 25, 2009
Ted, the docs in India were using D3. Quite a few docs use D3 now.
It would be great if I could say the same happens in the UK. I have had several examples online of people being TOLD they were taking vitamin D3 in the USA But who when shown
an images of D2 Ergocalciferol recognize the identification numbers.


D2 speeds up the turnover of VITAMIN D therefore causing more pronounced swings from high to low status and as it is more expensive and less reliable it should be avoided.

PS Re Arrowsmith's supplementing regime 2X 50000 a month provides 3 571 daily + 5000iu/d= 8,5000iu/daily and results in a 25(OH)D around 80ng/ml. This is towards the upper end of what is natural and ideal for someone with a chronic condition but it ensures at all times the body has available immediate access to both circulation 25(OH)D and reserves of stored D3. If I had a cancer diagnosis I would keep my 25(OH)D in exactly the same range as Arrowsmith.

The megadosing regime using D3 for dealing with infections is detailed here Stoss therapy While vitamin D3 is fat soluble Vitamin C is water soluble. The halflife of vitamin d is measured in weeks the half life of Vitamin C is measured in minutes. If you want to raise circulating plasma levels of vitamin c then TIME RELEASE, SUSTAINED RELEASE or similar forms are required. 500mg sustained release vitamin c taken 6times at 4hr intervals will have more effect than 3g Vitamin C taken once daily.
 

mountainbikebabe

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Dec 28, 2009
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Sedona, AZ
The Vitamin D question

There is research out on Vitamin D and brain lesions, go to www.metametrix.com they recommend testing for D and K together. D supplementation without enough K causes brain lesions. I have found doing a UBI will cause a huge vitamin D increase but your own body is making it from the ultraviolet light.
I would not take vitamin D supplements without reviewing this material first.
 

Ted_Hutchinson

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2009
There is research out on Vitamin D and brain lesions
The myth about Vitamin D and calcium causing brain lesions comes from this research
Calcium and vitamin D intakes may be positively associated with brain lesions in depressed and non-depressed elders

Those who are able to read and think for themselves will soon come to the conclusion that this is a set up.

The researchers have the finances available to do expensive MRI scans on the brains of these elderly people but choose to use dietary logs to work out Vitamin D and calcium status.

It's totally ludicrous to use diet as a measure of Vitamin D levels.
Everyone knows vitamin D3 is made in the skin and that is our main source, even in elderly people.
Although they don't make as much as younger folks, elderly people who live in the country and work in their gardens have higher levels than people the same age living and gardening, in urban environments.
It isn't the ability of the skin or the diet that accounts for that difference but the air pollution.

The Payne research did not correct for the differences arising from urban or rural living.

The Payne research above didn't measure 25(OH)D3 although for research purposes the cost of 25(OH)D testing is trivial (less than $40) whereas the cost of MRI scans is in hundreds of $$.
If you have some motive to want to prove higher levels of vitamin D may be dangerous then you need to do proper measurements and this Payne research failed to do that.

When at best less than 10% of our daily vitamin D requirements could possibly come from diet (and that involves eating oily fish daily) only idiots and those with malicious intent would use a food frequency questionnaire to guess 25(OH)D status.

I agree that it is worth recognising the fact that increasing vitamin D status improves the absorption of calcium and that levels above 42ng/ml are required for maximum bone mineral density. Certainly taking magnesium and vitamin K2 will assist the creation of strong bones.

But that is NOT a reason for not raising vitamin D levels.
Calcium is best obtained and utilized from food sources.
If you want to preserve bone structure then not only do you need to increase your D3 intake (and magnesium +Vitamin K2) but you also need to cut out the sodas.

The level at which babies are born with sufficient Vitamin D status to absorb calcium in optimum amounts from their diet and obtain natural vitamin D3 from their mothers breast milk is 58.8ng/ml and that requires 6400iu/daily supplementation at latitude 32 or an equivalent amount from non burning full body exposure to UVB bearing sunlight.

If you think you know better than the hundreds of thousands of years of evolutionary process found worked best then I would like to see your evidence.

This new research tells us that
25-Hydroxyvitamin D3 is an agonistic vitamin D receptor ligand
That means vitamin D requires just one hydroxylation to be an active hormone. But it is only an active hormone when present in sufficient amounts.
40ng/ml is too low. 60ng/ml gives it more act in the way we evolved to function.

Vitamin K2 information
There is good reason to say that Developmental vitamin D deficiency causes abnormal brain development
 

RCannon

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Nov 9, 2008
Location
Peoria
Yes I think the answer is not to avoid supplementing with D but rather stop supplementing calcium. Is there any proof that taking calcium to raise blood levels will cause that calcium to go back into bones??? I doubt it. There is more in bones than calcium. You need magnesium and other minerals in proper balance. So if you take just calcium, and it gets absorbed, where can it go? It has to get filtered out again and it could very well cause lesions in the process. I'm just using common sense. And if you take a lot of dairy, which is overly high in calcium, you could get lesions. Best thing is eat lots of green veggies. These are high in absorbable calcium.
 


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