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Old 03-12-2008, 04:20 PM
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Default Acupuncture Face Lift


Xania, I understand that you do this? what do you think of it? How long does it last? and how do you think it works? by toning the skin? or toning the muscles under the skin? or activating the energy flow in your face?

Do you do it for the neck too? can you see a difference when you do the neck?

I saw that they have some videos about this on Youtube:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0gECrui_2Qo

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8QMJzIHXH3M
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Old 03-13-2008, 03:42 PM
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Yes, I do cosmetic acupuncture. I like the way the Mei Zen presenter explains that beauty comes from within - if we feel good, we look good. Of the Youtube videos I have just looked at, this one is closest to the techniques I use
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PRoK0wj-myo&feature=related

When I did the cosmetic acupuncture training, some 2 years ago, what convinced me that it was worth doing was when I looked around the classroom at the end of the second day. We had all treated each other with the newly learned cosmetic techniques, and the whole classroom of people looked different to me! They were vibrant, younger, alert and healthy looking. Usually at the end of the second day of a seminar, late on a Sunday, everyone looks jaded, tired and wanting to go home. This time, they were as bright as a collection of sparrows, chattering animately and excited about the course.
They looked rejuvenated, animated and engaged in the here and now.
That was when I relised that it was a worth while thing to do.

In China, appearance is all important - it is a status symbol. If someone has a blemish, he/she goes to the TCM doc and wants it treated.

Cosmetic acupuncture does not have the dramatic effects of a surgical face lift, but it does make you look good.
Scorpiotiger asks about neck treatment. Yes, I do that too. It works as much as it works on the face. I said before that a 70 year old face cannot be turned into a 30 year old face - that would be unnatural (as is plastic surgery) but the 70 year old will look younger, brighter and more alive after cosmetic acupuncture.
A couple fo points from the videos - one said that a treatment could be fitted in to a lunchtime -NO. To do it properly, it should take about one hour. That is the time I allow for such a treatment

Another point in a video - it takes ten treatment to show a result. Once again NO
The recent cosmetic treatment I did was a first session for a woman who has a pallor and puffiness to her face. After the first treatment she noticed an immediate change. So did I. Her colour had improved and there was more life and animation to be seen. She will need a few more treatments to achieve a longer lasting effect, but not ten!
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Old 03-13-2008, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpiotiger View Post
Xania, I understand that you do this? what do you think of it? How long does it last? and how do you think it works? by toning the skin? or toning the muscles under the skin? or activating the energy flow in your face?
I think it works by doing all those things. Improved collagen production Improved muscle tone and circulation, and a feeling of relaxed well being.

As to how long it lasts - after the first 3 or 4 treatments at weekly intervals, some choose to have a treatment once a month to maintain the improvement. Some just return at special occasions, such as parties, weddings or other special event. It's up to the individual to learn how to use it, once she knows how it works for her.
I have a patient who has been coming monthly for two years. She and her husband see visible results and are pleased with what they see. They are not interested in someone else's scientific opinion. They see the effect and want to continue to reap the benefits.
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:14 PM
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Thank you, Xania. This is really fascinating. Wish I could have been a little mouse (or kitten) in the corner of that classroom! I would have liked to watch the changes.

YouTube - I wish they had some videos where they showed a face before treatments, and after.. say, 10 treatments.. before and after type photos. But seeing the process is very interesting.

botox.. I would never do this for a couple of reasons. first, like they said, I think injecting a paralyzing substance into the body, even in minute amounts.. I don't like the idea at all. Can it build up? how does the body dispose of it? does it affect any other part of the body when the body does work to get rid of it?

but.. in addition to that, the other reason i think botox is counterproductive to the whole reason you do it in the first place, is.. you are injecting a paralyzing agent into facial muscles. This will work to make facial muscles SMALLER AND WEAKER in the long run. It is these muscles which provide the foundation for your face! yes, you might get a temporary effect.. but I can't help but feel that in the long run, you will make the "deterioration" worse/faster. I would think anyone that goes to the gym, or knows someone that has paralysis, can see what happens when you exercise a muscle versus when it gets no exercise at all. The muscles in your face are there for a reason, and I think to do anything that weakens them is crazy.

Plus.. what is the point of getting rid of wrinkles if you can't smile? Dang...

my opinion, of course.

so, i think acupuncture, facial massage, facial exercise is a much better way to try to slow aging, and bring out the best in your skin.

Thanks, Xania for your explanation of these different forms of acupuncture.

so, are you using a "purse" effect here, involving "tightening" the skin/muscles between 2 points? or are they just stimulating different acupuncture points to revitalize the face as a whole? or is it a combination of both?
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Old 03-17-2008, 06:25 PM
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That's cool!

Is that a new trend? The only face lifts I know are laser face lift and surgical face lifts.
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:43 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x7bI...eature=related
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:06 PM
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Maybellin, I don't know how much cosmetic acupuncture is available in USA, but it has been in UK for about 3 years. People seem to like it and come back for more.
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Old 03-18-2008, 04:33 PM
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Xania,

I've been thinking of getting an electric acupuncture device. No needles, just current. And I was going to ask your opinion on such devices in general.

Do you think it would work for cosmetic issues?

Arrow
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:48 AM
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Arrow, I use a microcurrent device (Healthpoint) but that is secondary to the use of needles and oils. I haven't tried the healthpoint alone so I can't really say if it will be useful for cosmetic applications. Maybe so, in a small way.
It is more useful for other conditions. I use it on myself for eye treatment. I have used it on some patients for joint pains, but always in conjuction with acupuncture - not instead of.
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Old 03-23-2008, 01:03 AM
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Xania, I was looking at the acupuncture charts, and I noticed that the points in the face are in the the stomach, the intestines, the gall bladder meridians.

so, are you stimulating these areas when you give a person an acupuncture facelift?

Acupuncture Points Database - Locations, Functions and Clinical Applications


(SP) Spleen Meridian - Graphic


(GB) Gall Bladder Meridian - Graphic


(UB) Urinary Bladder Meridian - Graphic


(SI) Small Intestine Meridian - Graphic


(ST) Stomach Meridian - Graphic


(LI) Large Intestine Meridian - Graphic
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Old 03-23-2008, 01:41 AM
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That's a good site, isn't it?
But no, I don't use any of the meridian points when I am doing a cosmetic treatment. I avoid them. The needle depth would be wrong and we don't obtain the "deqi" sensation in cosmetic treatment. It's a physical effect more than an energetic effect, I believe.
If, during a cosmetic treatment, someon also wants help with sinusitis, as happened last week, then I used standard sized needles and standard techniques to include Bladder 2 and Large Intestine 20.
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Old 03-23-2008, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xania View Post
That's a good site, isn't it?
YES!!! I LOVE IT!!!

But then, I love pictures. and this is interactive, too. Wish they had more information on the points, but I realize it is geared more towards people versed in acupuncture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xania View Post
But no, I don't use any of the meridian points when I am doing a cosmetic treatment. I avoid them. The needle depth would be wrong and we don't obtain the "deqi" sensation in cosmetic treatment. It's a physical effect more than an energetic effect, I believe.
If, during a cosmetic treatment, someon also wants help with sinusitis, as happened last week, then I used standard sized needles and standard techniques to include Bladder 2 and Large Intestine 20.


whaaaat? then what are all these sites that talk about acupuncture facelifts using the acupuncture points and meridians, etc.? just hype?

and.. if you don't use the meridian points.. then why call it acupuncture? Does acupuncture have a part where meridian points are not used?

so.. what are the needles doing then?
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Old 03-23-2008, 11:58 AM
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I don't know why those sites give those descriptions!

I went to two different colleges to learn different styles of cosmetic acupuncture. Neither of them suggested using points on meridians for "facelift" treatments The needles have to be inserted either side of skin creases, or at mucle insertions - that is,at either end of a muscle - in order to stimulate tone and elasticity, so the treatment is aimed at the underlying structure, not at any particular meridian.

I think it's called acu-puncture, because the skin is punctured.

Yes, there are many ways of using acupuncture that do not involve points on meridians. There are "extra points" - those which have traditionally been recognised as being acupuncture points, but not belonging to any particular meridian
There are also "local" points, or Ah She points, . That is, places where pressure produces pain - say in a strained muscle or tendon, or after a fracture, for instance. Needling those Ah She points has a good local effect and also releases endorphins in that area.
Then there are Hwa Tuo Jia Ji points, discovered, or described by a doctor HwaTo. Those are points about a half inch distant from the midline of the spinal column, and are useful in some types of back pain.

Shall I go on - no need, really!
I think that practitioners of Chinese Medicine understand the very different way of thinking required to grasp the theory of TCM, and do their best to Westernise or simplify the descriptions they give. When we discover that the simplified description is misleading, we want to say Hype, and maybe it is in some cases. Perhaps it leads to a clearer marketing strategy for that person! I don't know. I explain as best I can, then just do it!
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Old 03-23-2008, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xania View Post
I don't know why those sites give those descriptions!

I went to two different colleges to learn different styles of cosmetic acupuncture. Neither of them suggested using points on meridians for "facelift" treatments The needles have to be inserted either side of skin creases, or at mucle insertions - that is,at either end of a muscle - in order to stimulate tone and elasticity, so the treatment is aimed at the underlying structure, not at any particular meridian.

I think it's called acu-puncture, because the skin is punctured.

Yes, there are many ways of using acupuncture that do not involve points on meridians. There are "extra points" - those which have traditionally been recognised as being acupuncture points, but not belonging to any particular meridian
There are also "local" points, or Ah She points, . That is, places where pressure produces pain - say in a strained muscle or tendon, or after a fracture, for instance. Needling those Ah She points has a good local effect and also releases endorphins in that area.
Then there are Hwa Tuo Jia Ji points, discovered, or described by a doctor HwaTo. Those are points about a half inch distant from the midline of the spinal column, and are useful in some types of back pain.
thanks.. this makes it clearer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xania View Post
Shall I go on - no need, really!
I think that practitioners of Chinese Medicine understand the very different way of thinking required to grasp the theory of TCM, and do their best to Westernise or simplify the descriptions they give. When we discover that the simplified description is misleading, we want to say Hype, and maybe it is in some cases. Perhaps it leads to a clearer marketing strategy for that person! I don't know. I explain as best I can, then just do it!
sorry.. wasn't attacking. just trying to understand. sometimes when you ask questions because you don't understand, it is only then that you realize that you were making a wrong assumption to begin with.

and you have explained that acupuncture is more than inserting needles into meridian points. which is something new to me!

It is a different way of thinking.. but that doesn't mean the gap can never be bridged, does it? I hope that Western medicine and eastern medicine do try to do this. I think both sides will gain from it.

thanks, Xania.
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Old 03-23-2008, 01:39 PM
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"sorry.. wasn't attacking. just trying to understand. sometimes when you ask questions because you don't understand, it is only then that you realize that you were making a wrong assumption to begin with."

It's OK - I had not meant that as a criticism, just trying to describe how difficult it is to bridge the East - West divide. There was no attack in your post.
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