\r\n \r\n Arrow, are you for the obamacare... the government run healthcare plan? Do you really believe that its the insurance companies that are making us afraid of this healthcare plan???? The idea of government run healthcare scares me to death. I am a caregiver for people who cant care for themselves... from what Im reading those people would be in big time trouble!!!!
\n
\nhttps://www.liberty.edu/media/9980/at...ama_072909.pdf
\n
\n
\nIf anyone is interested in some heavy reading, here is the full text of HR3200
\n
\nhttps://www.capwiz.com/afanet/webretu...?c111:H.R.3200:\r\n

\r\n __________________
\r\n God is and all is well
\r\n~John Greenleaf Whittier~\r\n

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\r\n \r\n We already have government run healthcare in medicare, medicaid and CHIPS.
\nI have worked professionally within all these arenas both with the elderly and with children and I have not seen any deficiency. All got excellent care, at least by conventional standards. I have no reason to think that it would change. No one has shown me any reason to think it would change.
\n
\nTell me, who pays the bill for those people you care for who cannot care for themselves? Do they have an inheritance or it the government paying?
\n
\nThen I had to laugh at all those old farts standing up there at some town hall stating they didn\'t want socialized medicine. Well the congressman they were talking to got them good. He asked them to raise their hands is anybody was on medicare. A bunch raised their hands. Then he asked them to raise their hands if they wanted to get rid of medicare. No one raised their hands. Some didn\'t even know medicare was socialized medicine.
\n
\nSince Obama says that you get to keep the healthcare insurance you have if you want it I just don\'t get what people are freaking out about.
\n
\nI do think that it is the insurance companies driving this insanity. They are freaked them selves and they are being put into position of being regulated, which should have happened long ago in my opinion. They are the ones coming between me and my doctor, not the federal government. They tell me how many times I can see my doctor and what tests I can have, not the government.
\n
\nI just can\'t believe what the right wingers are saying about the forced euthanasia of the elderly just because the bill mandates payment to doctors to take the time to talk about end of life options to those who need it. I\'ve been a hospice nurse now for over 5 years. Previously we forced people into treatment that caused untold suffering. Now we give people choice and support them in the choice they make wether if its going on a ventilator feeding tube or allowing nature to take its course. Before people had no choice. All hospitals do this, it is called a living will. It should be the law to have to have one filled out. Saves a lot of grief for families and for doctors too cause then they know what their patients want when the patient cannot speak for themselves.
\n
\nI have heard nothing but insanity at those town halls. I just don\'t know where they dug up such ignorant people and people willing to obstruct others who wish to learn and speak also. really obnoxious.
\n
\nThat second link you provide went nowhere. The first link looks like BS to me. I found several errors at just a glance. for instance it says that we will provide healthcare to all foreigners, That is not true. We must deliver emergency care that is all, which is ethical.
\n
\nWhy do people think that American healthcare is so great when we rank really low by international standards? When millions go without insurance? When many children suffer from no healthcare at all? What about them hugh? What about those kids?
\n
\nSo far I have not found a link the health plan. I certainly am not going to take a right wing organizations interpretation of it as fact. They are being controlled by corporate interests. Why good people don\'t see that is beyond me. Guess cause corporate interests are good at wrapping stuff up in Christain fear mongering and fantasies. Far as I can tell the right wing is extremely supportive of the corporate money grubbing greedy world.
\n
\nI have always been for socialized medicine.
\n
\nMan, I had to laugh! The right wing put up Steven Hawkins as an example, you know that brilliant scientist who has ALS and is in a wheel chair, can\'t even speak with out a machine assits, and they said on a propaganda tv add that Steven would not have survived if he had to put up with the socialized medicine of the UK.. my god! They can\'t even lie and do it right! Steven Hawkins is a British Citizen and has been cared for by socialized medicine all his life! Pretty dam good job they have done I would say considering all the challenges a poor body like his has.
\n
\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking
\n
\njust knocks me over! they are so stupid.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n I agree with you Arrow. As a senior on Medicare, which I appreciate immensely, I have
\r\nabsolutely NO fear of being euthanized. I\'m for it except for the cost. I have no idea
\r\nhow it will be paid for. And I Do think the Insurance Companies are scared of losing big bucks and/or of being forced to give better coverage or lose customers.\r\n

\r\n __________________
\r\n May you always have..Love to Share, Health to Spare, and Friends that Care!\r\n

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\r\n \r\n I am a senior on medicare. Every month I have $90 taken out of my social security check before I get it! Then I have a supplemental insurance policy $175 a month last time I ran the numbers it figures out to $265.00 per month or $3,180.00 per year. Someone please tell me what is free here. When employed I had medicare tax taken out of evey check, when self employed I paid it at tax time. Now I am using those benefits when needed.
\n
\nDo you perhaps have medicare and medicade (welfare from state) confused?
\n
\nSad thing is medicare is broke because the politicians spend the medicare money down for heavens knows what all.
\n
\nAnyone who can still bear weight on their knees should be on them praying because this nation has some problems and it is not medicare spending that got us here. Check out the greedy Barons of Wall Street.
\n
\nSuzyQ\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Most people in Britain cant believe some of the so called "stories" about the National Heath Service being quoted in the US healthcare debate.
\n
\nStephen Hawking has never used anything but the NHS for treating his ALS disease for over 30 years.
\n
\nhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...t-the-NHS.html
\n
\nHeres a US woman who has experience of both the NHS and US healthcare and gives a balanced view of the good and bad points of both systems.
\nA lot of other US users of the NHS also comment on their experiences of the system.
\n
\nhttps://potentialandexpectations.word...thcare-system/\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Isn\'t United Health Care the company that AARP uses?
\n
\nThere are at least 3 bills in Congress. Only one ever seems to get sited. Let\'s see what the Senate comes up with.
\n
\nThere are a few government run health programs. They could probably save ooodles of money by combining them. At least, they would save in work force.
\n
\nSuccessfully run government health programs have been in existence for decades. Veteran\'s, Congressional, Medicare, Medicade, Federal Employees.
\n
\nI\'m all for it. I rarely have used health insurance and have paid for it all my working life. I\'m on the natural path. That\'s why I\'m here on this forum. I\'d only use insurance for infrastructural problems or emergencies.
\n
\nThe insurance companies better start being creative with new products; like supplements for those who want more. Like drug plans for those who will need more that a gov run plan can offer. Like better plans for those who can afford better than government. You know? Creative. Competitive. They\'ve gouged us long enough. They are wealthy.\r\n

\r\n __________________
\r\n -
\n- Jim
\nLife is just one damned thing after another - Elbert Hubbard
\n
\n\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Yes, AARP\'s medicare supplement insurance is United Health Care\r\n

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\r\n \r\n
\n
\nControlled by corporate interests?
\n
\n
\n
\nAlrighty then. Arrow, have you always been an employee with a benefits package? Have you ever been an employer?
\nDoes anyone understand how this governmental health plan is going to financially affect small businesses & how many part time people will most likely get laid off as a result? As you well know, most p/t employees are not entitled to health care benefits. If the proposed \'public option\' is put into place and an employer must insure all of his/her employees or else pay the 8% of payroll required in order to qualify them for governmental health care, many small businesses are going to lay people off.
\nStands to reason that the unemployment rate will then rise & more people are going to become dependent on government subsidies, unemployment, welfare.............. And the businesses that do cover the cost of insurance for their currently uninsured, will inflate the prices of their services & products to cover their costs.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n There are 3 proposed health plans in the House and 1 in the Senate. Which one are you talking about cookie? By the time anything gets to the floor of either house, it will most likely be way watered down. The insurance industry lobby is super powerful. They will get their way. The pharmaceutical lobby and the AMA will not be able to fight the insurance lobby.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n That\'s true, but the pharmaceutical lobby does have a lot of muscle....
\n
\nHere\'s a direct link to the bill Arrow. Let us know what you think after reading it.
\nhttps://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/show
\n\r\n

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\r\n \r\n They want to limit treatment for those over 65. They need to do something or medicare will collapse with all the cancer prone boomers coming of age, plus alzheimers, parkinsons, etc.
\nsee donaldmiller.com Sarah Palin article. It talks about this a bit, and global warming etc.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n You know, where ever I go on this site I just don\'t see the bill.
\nhttps://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/show
\nand I still have not found it. just an outline I posted on another thread.
\n
\nAnd having cared for medicare patients for many years now I do think that some of their care needs to be limited...for instance, you do not proceed with chemo and radiation on elderly metastatic cancer patient, which costs a fortune and has no results. These patients need palliative care (which in fact may include some chemo and radiation in certain circumstances) You do not repair fractured hips on people that are over 75 unless they meet very specific qualifications in strength, mental coherency and bone density because unless they score high in these areas the post surgical outcome will be a failure. You do not have aggressive treatments for alzheimer patients. The best thing that can happen for them is for another disease to take them before Alzheimer\'s runs its full course.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n I tend to think of age 75 as being middle aged.
\r\n
\r\nChemo and radiation shouldn\'t be used on any patients. They are a disaster. the future will look back upon them in disgust. It is common knowledge that both chemo and radiation cause cancer, so why would anyone want to treat a cancer patient with something that causes cancer... makes no sense to me.
\r\n
\r\nAs far as broken bones are concerned, the body will heal at any age if given the proper nutrients. I work in a hospital and nursing home, and see what is given to residents in the form of nutrients. Its disgusting, for supper they may get a hot dog, and there aren\'t any nutrients in that.
\r\n
\r\nAs far as Alzheimer\'s is concerned, they will never find a cure if they continue to look in the wrong places for the answers. Alzheimer\'s is nothing more than toxins in the brain. These toxins can consist of heavy metals such as aluminum, mercury, or an amyloid plaque, which is nothing more than mycotoxins that are excreeted by fungus.
\r\n
\r\nDetoxification, including the use of chlorophyll, proper diet, exercise, and antifungal treatments can bring most Alzheimer\'s patients back to where they can function normally.\r\n

\r\n __________________
\r\n Let Food Be Your Medicine And Medicine Be Your Food.(Hippocrates)\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Once you click on the \'Official Bill Text\' in the upper right hand corner, it brings up the outline. You can then click on each line to either comment on it or you\'re also able to click on a permalink which gives a detailed explaination. I\'d much rather it be page by page to make it easier to read, but.......\r\n

\r\n __________________
\r\n
\nThe art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease
\n~Voltaire~
\n
\n\r\n

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\r\n \r\n There was a program last night on a PBS station, I think, about Alzheimers
\r\nand how many there are with it now and about how many more are expected
\r\nto get it in the future, what with the many baby boomers who are getting
\r\nolder. The numbers and info wqs frightening. They discussed the care and
\r\ncost of it.
\r\nI\'ll be 74 next month and so far see no signs in myself, nor any of my friends
\r\nin the same age range. Both of my parents died at 83 and had no signs of it
\r\neither. I can\'t help but wonder why there\'s so many with Alzheimers these
\r\ndays.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Early Bird,
\n
\nThose who live on fast food and Big Gulp sugary drinks are setting themselves up for health problems and not only themselves but their children. Death begins in the colon as so stated by Dr. Benard Jensen in his book titled the same.
\n
\nOur bodies we not designed to operate on a high fat diet. After years of abuse the body revolts in the only way it can through disease and sickness.
\n
\nAs to the PBS program and media in general I tend to take their figures with a grain of salt most of it is propaganda and entertainment. If you have lived 74 years I got a feeling you figured this out too.
\n
\nGod bless and may you live another 74!
\n
\n SuzyQ\r\n

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\r\n \r\n No thanks SuzyQ on another 74 years. LOL!
\r\nActually, my mother did eat decently, no fast food but she did like
\r\nan occasional Coke. She was a big salad and fresh fruit and veggie
\r\neater. My Dad, before he came to live with me at age 80, was more
\r\nprone to the Big Macs, KFC Chicken, etc. and very few veggies or fruit.
\r\nI sure changed that! I\'ve always fixed decent meals and still do.
\r\nYet, both parents remained mentally sharp!\r\n

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\r\n \r\n In talking to a friend yesterday, he told me his soon to be 79 year old
\r\nMother had triple by-pass heart surgery last Friday; She\'s doing fine now
\r\ntho he\'d almost lost her the day before. I\'m sure Medicare paid a bunch
\r\nfor this one!\r\n

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\r\n \r\n In palliative care, chemo or radiation is sometimes used to slow the process down. You have to realize that these are the choices that are out there for the average person. I do not necessarily condone it but if one choose conventional medicine thats what you choose and chemo or radiation is a choice in palliative care. I see it work for some and make a mess for others. It does not cure and in palliative care no cure is expected. Only symptom management... and in most cases that is pain.
\n
\nSoperhaps you have to change the diet of the world. You can start in the nursing home you work in pinballdoctor. In fact, I have to ask why haven\'t you already?
\n
\nOne needs to be a pragmatist when dealing with patients who really have no desire or education or motivation in healing themselves.... and in reality, that is the vast majority of people.
\n
\nIf you live by the sword you will die by the sword and thats just how it is out there in the real world and it is almost impossible to get folks to change, especially at 75. So in light of this reality I do feel that people should have the kind of healthcare that they want and that is practical for them and that they can be compliant with and that fits into their beleif system. People have the right to be wrong and we are many many years off from having properly educated folks in nutrition and other alternative modalities and you wont find many in nursing homes either as patients or as personell.
\n
\nI always think of Sally Feild doing that Boniva commercial. I always think, how come, with her intelligence, her money, her access to the very best in the alternative healthcare arena if she should choose, that she chooses to do Boniva commercials. It is sad. Such a loss of opportunity... but then you have those like Susan Sommers.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n The people know how I feel about the poor nutrition in hospital food, however, they follow their guidelines and will never change unless the government tells then to, and that won\'t happen any time soon. They still insist on mammograms, even though they know perfectly well they cause cancer and are absolutely useless. Its all about money and greed.
\r\n
\r\nAlso, hospital ventilation systems should employ ultraviolet lights, however, you won\'t see that happening anytime soon either.
\r\n
\r\nI lost all respect for sally Field when I saw that commercial.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Speaking of UV light. A couple months ago I helped a guy build up a dollhouse to use as a show and tell to demonstrate how a bank of UV lights along the corner of the ceiling and wall could be used to disinfect a room. It idea was after the cleaning people had finished doing their usual through job when they left the room they would lock it up and turn on the UV lamps to kill any bugs that they missed. After a predetermined length of time the lamps would turn off and a control panel would indicate that room was ready for occupancy.
\n
\n Have not heard back from him as to how the show and tell went.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Early Bird,
\n
\nThe body is like a machine, give it the proper fuel and it runs great for many years.
\nIt is wonderful your parents remained sharp.
\nI for one believe we are what we eat.
\n
\nBlessings,
\n
\nSuzyQ \r\n

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\r\n \r\n Steven Hemsley salary is disgraceful, and I\'m with United Health Care. Plus they just raised my rates last month, for no good reason. Just raised them. Guess he needed more money because he\'s so broke! I hate hearing about stuff like this, it raises my blood pressure. ;-(\r\n

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