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Old 06-15-2010, 10:53 AM
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Default Vitamins - expensive urine?

The "Expensive Urine" Myth
What About Those "Wasted" Vitamins?


(OMNS, November 10, 2008) Ever heard this one before? "Your body doesn't absorb extra vitamins. All you get from taking vitamin supplements is expensive urine." Sure you have. And you still will, at websites such as https://www.dietitian.com and https://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/67769 . Even the BBC has reported it https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/109881.stm. Some people will tell you that any vitamin consumption higher than the lowly RDA is simply a "waste of money."
"Expensive urine." It is an old saw, and one terrific sound byte. Too bad it is also false.
Urine is what is left over after your kidneys purify your blood. If your urine contains, say, extra vitamin C, that vitamin C was in your blood. If the vitamin was in your blood, you absorbed it just fine. It is the absence of water-soluble vitamins in urine that indicates vitamin deficiency. If your body excretes vitamins in your urine, that is a sign that you are well-nourished and have nutrients to spare. That is good.
Here's another way to think of it: Standing at the base of the Hoover Dam looking up, you cannot tell how much water is behind it. However, by observing the overflow spillway, you can tell. If the spillway is dry and dusty, full of tumbleweeds and foxes are making their dens, there has been a drought for some time, and the water level in the dam must be low. If water is pouring down the spillway, the dam must be full. "Waste" indicates fullness, just as an overflowing cup is unmistakably a full cup. Urine spillage of vitamins indicates nutritional adequacy. A lack of water-soluble vitamins in the urine indicates inadequacy.
"Expensive urine," writes veteran nutritional reporter Jack Challem, is "a bizarre argument because a $50 restaurant meal and a bottle of fine wine also lead to expensive urine, but no one seems to be complaining about those things. Numerous studies have shown, however, that vitamin supplements do increase people's blood levels of those nutrients." (1)
Former faculty member at the University of Auckland Michael Colgan, PhD, measured how much vitamin C is actually used with increasing daily doses. He found that "Only a quarter of our subjects reached their vitamin C maximum at 1,500 mg a day. More than half required over 2,500 mg a day to reach a level where their bodies could use no more. Four subjects did not reach their maximum at 5,000 mg." Indeed, says one commentator, "Increasing vitamin C intake from 50 mg to 500 mg tends to double serum vitamin C levels. Increasing intake to 5,000 mg a day will double serum levels again." (2)
Time for a Second Opinion?
Thomas Levy, MD, JD, a board-certified cardiologist, says "There's a popular medical view that taking vitamin C just makes expensive urine. Some of it is lost in urine, but the more you consume, the more stays in your body." (3)
William Kaufman, MD, a physician with a PhD in nutritional biochemistry as well, wrote: "Those who believe that you can get all the nourishment including vitamins and minerals you need to sustain optimal health throughout life from food alone can be very smug. They have the equivalent of an orthodox religious belief: "food is everything." They don't have to concern themselves with the fact that the nutritional value of foods their patient eats may be greatly inferior to the listed nutritional values given in food tables. . . The two-liner 'We get all the vitamins we need in our diets. Taking supplements only gives you an expensive urine' completely overlooks the benefits vitamin supplements can produce in our bodies before being excreted in our urine." (4)
Expensive Breath
We all know that we breathe in oxygen and breathe out carbon dioxide. We also breathe out oxygen, and quite a lot of it, too. Inhaled air is about 21% oxygen. We typically consume only about a quarter of that. So exhaled breath is approximately 15% oxygen. (5) Exhaled breath has enough oxygen for CPR to save lives. That also must mean that scuba divers have "expensive breath." For that matter, oxygen-tent patients from preemies to geriatric patients, and those receiving surgical anesthesia all receive far more oxygen than their bodies can actually use. We do not consider that a waste; we consider that a good idea. Abundance is not a bad thing.
Expensive "Drug Urine"
"When it comes to really expensive urine," says one editorial, "doctors fail to look at the cost of all those pharmaceuticals and chemotherapy drugs they're shoving down the throats of patients. Those drugs are excreted through the urine, too, and when you add up the cost of those, just the financial cost, not even counting the cost in devastating side effects, they far outweigh the cost of eating healthy foods and taking supporting supplements." (6)
Dr. Kaufmann adds: "During the early part of World War II, GI's treated with penicillin had to save all their urine so that the penicillin which had been excreted in their urine could be recovered and then used to treat other GI's with life threatening wound infections. If one only considered the penicillin that was excreted in the urine and not the benefits that the GI had in having his infection cured by penicillin, one could sneer that penicillin's only function was to give the GI expensive urine. If one considered only the function of penicillin in the GI's body, one would have to marvel at the miracle of its curing a potentially lethal infection." (4)
Good nutrition saves lives. The therapeutic use of vitamin supplements, to both treat and prevent serious diseases, has tens of thousands of scientific references to support it. (7) Can all of those researchers and physicians be dumber than the reporter you may have just have heard intone that "vitamins just give you expensive urine"?
So many of us modern-day people are deficit eaters, attempting to obtain our vitamins from a selection of nutritionally weak foods. Foods alone cannot meet our vitamin needs for optimum health. Vitamin supplements are the solution, not the problem. Good health is not about the vitamins you excrete; it's about the vitamins you retain.

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Old 06-15-2010, 01:12 PM
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The problem with this kind of propaganda is that it doesn't take account of the changes in our food supply that have caused the low vitamin/mineral status prevalent today.
Evidence of decreasing mineral density in wheat grain over the last 160 years.
So knowing it's a fact that modern grains have less magnesium than even as recently as 1960 what do you do?
Only someone determined to remain magnesium deficient will not take the obvious step to researching which forms of magnesium are best absorbed and find out the most cost effective sources.
Yes we are all sufficiently intelligent to work out that being hygroscopic magnesium absorbs water and so any magnesium remaining unabsorbed in our digestive system will attract water and make our stools loose and when we are suffering diarrhea will have sufficient common sense to reduce magnesium intake to the level at which the symptoms of magnesium excess stop.

People aren't morons.
Even the slowest witted person can work out that with a half life of just 3O minutes the best form of vitamin C will be a time release formulation that only allows a small release of vitamin C spread over 8~12 hrs.

We don't have to put most of our supplement down the loo if we understand how they work in the body. The anti vitamin people don't explain how to correct vitamin D deficiency without supplements.
We all are aware that Vitamin D comes from UVB acting on the cholesterol in our skin but how do people on statins or on a cholesterol lowering diet make sufficient vitamin D from sunshine? They can't as following doctors orders they have prematurely aged skins.

What about people living in towns and cities. Everyone knows UVB is blocked by ozone in the atmosphere and this is high in urban environments.That's why people in the town have lower vitamin D status than in the country.

So knowing urban dwellers can't get the same vitamin D production from sunlight as those who live in the country what is the answer except using effective strength vitamin D3 capsules? and don't say dietary sources will do as only Eskimos eating a traditional diet of fish/game fermented in seal oil will be able to get 6000iu/daily vitamin D3 from their diet, people eating from supermarket foods will be extremely lucky to get even 600iu/daily from food sources.

I don't see how it's possible to correct omega 6<> omega 3 imbalance without initially also resorting to high strength omega 3capsules. All right eliminating omega 6 rich industrially made seed/grain oils like sunflower, corn, safflower, soy and and cottonseed oil is required but that takes time and is a long term project. Everyone from the 1960's onward have had from birth and mothers breast milk have been getting an increasing omega 6 diet, It's now up to 20 omega 6 to 1 omega 3 and everything over 5<>1 is bad news because above that level omega 6 displaces the omega 3 from it's position in cells. So in order to redress this imbalance not only has omega 6 got to be eliminated but also we've got to raise omega 3 intake and supplements are the only effective source. We are not going to eat fish 3 times a day. Even 3 times a week is going to be a struggle for some Nor can we all afford grass raised meat/eggs and wild caught fish rather than farmed fish. If we can't source high omega 3 meat fish eggs dairy then the only option is supplements and decrying those as a waste of money simply shows an appalling level of ignorance about the state of current food nutritional status.
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:48 PM
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That expensive urine idea came from a doctor quite a while ago.... don't remember his name, but it got blasted all over the media at the time. Even he has retracted his statement now.
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Old 06-18-2010, 04:23 AM
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Prevalence of micronutrient deficiency in popular diet plans
Quote:
Abstract
Background

Research has shown micronutrient deficiency to be scientifically linked to a higher risk of overweight/obesity and other dangerous and debilitating diseases.
With more than two-thirds of the U.S. population overweight or obese, and research showing that one-third are on a diet at any given time, a need existed to determine whether current popular diet plans could protect followers from micronutrient deficiency by providing the minimum levels of 27 micronutrients, as determined by the U.S. Food and Drug Administrations (FDA) Reference Daily Intake (RDI) guidelines.
Methods
Suggested daily menus from four popular diet plans (Atkins for Life diet, The South Beach Diet, the DASH diet, The Best Life Diet) were evaluated. Calorie and micronutrient content of each ingredient, in each meal, were determined by using food composition data from the U.S. Department of Agriculture Nutrient Database for Standard Reference. The results were evaluated for sufficiency and total calories and deficient micronutrients were identified. The diet plans that did not meet 100% sufficiency by RDI guidelines for each of the 27 micronutrients were re-analyzed;
(1) to identify a micronutrient sufficient calorie intake for all 27 micronutrients, and
(2) to identify a second micronutrient sufficient calorie intake when consistently low or nonexistent micronutrients were removed from the sufficiency requirement.
Results
Analysis determined that each of the four popular diet plans failed to provide minimum RDI sufficiency for all 27 micronutrients analyzed. The four diet plans, on average, were found to be RDI sufficient in (11.75 � 2.02; mean � SEM) of the analyzed 27 micronutrients and contain (1748.25 � 209.57) kcal. Further analysis of the four diets found that an average calorie intake of (27,575 � 4660.72) would be required to achieve sufficiency in all 27 micronutrients.
Six micronutrients (vitamin B7, vitamin D, vitamin E, chromium, iodine and molybdenum) were identified as consistently low or nonexistent in all four diet plans.
These six micronutrients were removed from the sufficiency requirement and additional analysis of the four diets was conducted. It was determined that an average calorie content of (3,475 � 543.81) would be required to reach 100% sufficiency in the remaining 21 micronutrients.

Conclusion
These findings are significant and indicate that an individual following a popular diet plan as suggested, with food alone, has a high likelihood of becoming micronutrient deficient; a condition shown to be scientifically linked to an increased risk for many dangerous and debilitating diseases.

Bear in mind that they used amounts suggested by the U.S. Food and Drug Administrations (FDA) RDI guidelines appropriate for healthy adult men and women and those who have studied the needs for vitamin D and magnesium would like to see these raised to help prevent many chronic conditions.
Quote:
Analysis revealed that the Atkins for Life diet was (44.44%) sufficient, delivered 100% RDI sufficiency for 12 out of 27 essential micronutrients and contained 1,786 calories.
The Best Life Diet was (55.56%) sufficient, delivered 100% of the RDI for 15 out of 27 essential micronutrients and contained 1,793 calories.
The DASH diet was (51.85%) sufficient, delivered 100% of the RDI for 14 out of 27 essential micronutrients and contained 2,217 calories.
Lastly, The South Beach Diet was (22.22%) sufficient, delivered 100% RDI
sufficiency for 6 out of 27 essential micronutrients and contained 1,197 calories
With regards to VITAMIN D there is NO POSSIBILITY THAT ANY MODERN DIET could provide adequate amounts of vitamin D3. The way eskimos survived the long winter and averaging 6~7000iu/daily was by fermenting vitamin D3 rich foods in seal oil for winter use, The best anyone could do nowdays using supermarket foods is achieve around 400iu/daily if they ate a portion of oily fish daily.
Vitamin D3 is made in the skin during UVB exposure and skin makes 10,000~20,000iu given 10~20-minutes full body prone nonburning midday sun exposure. But we can make do with roughly 1000iu/daily per 25lbs we currently weigh.

IODINE or Kelp powder

BIOTIN

Chromium

Vitamin E natural complex

As molybdenum can be obtained from you drinking water if you live in a hard water area and I'm not sure the researchers considered calcium/magnesium/molybdenum intakes from drinking water rather than just the food in the diet they measured, I don't worry about that.

I've provided examples from IHERB as their shipping to UK is cheapest. Use code WAB666 to save $5 initially. UK readers keep order value under �18 or pay VAT + �8 Post Office handling charge. Other readers may find the same products cheaper at Vitacost Swanson's Amazon etc, depending on local shipping costs.
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Old 06-18-2010, 08:55 AM
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This is really a clear example of why people need to look into structured water and start using it, not only in their kitchens but in agriculture. Sturctured water studies prove that it increases the Brix value on all foods that it nourishes. If Brix value increases then you know the plant is very healthy and has received the micronutrients that it needs... and if the plant receives them then you will to when you eat them... and this goes across the board for livestock.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:07 AM
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DRINKING WATER AND WATER TREATMENT SCAMS

Magnetic and Electric Effects on Water
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:34 AM
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Regardless of what the nay sayers say the evidience is building in the agricultural fields of the world. Larger produce with increased yeilds. Believe me, redneck farmers on multimillion dollar agri-farms dont have time to BS around with mystical concepts. The bottom line is in the bank account.

Has anyone even bothered to watch these videos yet?
https://www.natmedtalk.com/general-di...red-water.html
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:39 AM
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Even though the inventor of structured water is a scientist I don't believe him. He wouldn't be the first scientist to sell out for the big money his scam would bring in.
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowwind09 View Post
redneck farmers on multimillion dollar agri-farms dont have time to BS around with mystical concepts. The bottom line is in the bank account.
Indeed, as the power of structured water is so clearly and easily demonstrable we will see it reflected in the scientific research. I'll wait till then.
NMSR Teams with KRQE-TV13 on "Magnetic Water Conditioners"
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