No Healthcare Bill in '09?

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n I agree. Its not going to happen.
\n
\nBut why is the question. I think they are afraid... afraid of total economic collapse and they don\'t want to be blamed for it.... but its going to come anyway, health reform or not.
\n
\nMy son broke his wrist a couple of weeks ago. 21 and no insurance. He was freaked about the medical costs. First they said about 3,000. After all was said and done he didn\'t even get the cast they thought was needed just a splint in the ER. Turns out not really needed at all. The whole deal cost him about $200. If they could have they would have taken him for much much more and told him it was necessary.
\n
\nHis friend went to the hospital after someone socked him in the mouth and he required stitches, about 6 or 8. $2000 until the found out he had no money. Then for the suturing, $50.... about what it was worth.
\n
\nThe whole systems stinks...\r\n

Donee

\r\n \r\n I continue to believe that medical care should be a
\nmarket comodity-' + '-just like food, for example.
\n
\nThe insurance idea has been sold to us over many
\ndecades. That so many think that way today just
\nconfirms the power of advertizing

\n
\nI recall about 40 years back: A few weeks after I
\nquit my job and lost the insurance that it had
\nprovided as part payment for my services, my wife
\nfinds a lump in her breast. I immediately took her
\nto a hospital where they started talking about
\nexploratory surgery for the next day. That night
\nthe doctors on staff learned of our lack of insurance
\nso they did a simple procedure that revealed her
\nproblem to be a simple cyst-' + '- a couple hundred bucks
\nand an end to the problem.
\n
\nCatestrophic insurance is probably warented in some
\ncases, but current thoughts are overblown. Besides,
\nin the present situation I believe that the politicians
\nare just tryiny to increase their power over our lives.
\nThey simply want us weak and dependent.\r\n

EarlyBird

\r\n \r\n Sounds like anyone who has medical insurance now, should wear a shirt
\r\nwith Goldie Hawn\'s famous saying,"Sock It To Me" on the front of it! LOL!
\r\nI think there are probably many stories like these here. Charging high prices
\r\nfor anyone With Insurance is a ticket to steal in many instances, esp. in
\r\nHospital Emergency Rooms.\r\n

jfh

\r\n \r\n It certainly won\'t happen they way the Republicans are acting.
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\r\n \r\n Are Republicans Serious About Fixing Health Care?
\nNo, and here\'s the proof.
\nBy Jacob Weisberg
\nPosted Saturday, Dec. 12, 2009, at 6:44 AM ET
\n
\nGOP Sens. Charles Grassley and Orrin Hatch Iowa Sen. Charles Grassley, the top Republican on the Senate finance committee, has emerged as one of the harshest critics of what the right likes to call "Obamacare." After spending the first half of the year working with Democrats to find a bipartisan compromise, Grassley has spent the second half trying to prevent one. He attacks the bill now being debated on the Senate floor as an indefensible new entitlement. He complains that it expands the deficit, threatens Medicare, and does too little to restrain health care inflation. At a town hall meeting in August, the 76-year-old Iowan played the age card. "There is some fear, because in the House bill, there is counseling for end of life. And from that standpoint, you have every right to fear," he told an audience in John Wayne\'s hometown of Winterset.
\n
\nOne might credit the sincerity, if not the validity, of such concerns were it not for an inconvenient bit of history. Not so long ago, when Republicans controlled the Senate, Grassley was the chief architect of a bill that actually did most of the bad things he now accuses the Democrats of wanting. As chairman of the finance committee, Grassley championed the legislation that created a prescription-drug benefit under Medicare. The contrast between what he and his colleagues said during that debate in 2003 and what they\'re saying in 2009 exposes the disingenuousness of their current complaints.
\n
\nToday the Medicare prescription-drug debate is remembered mainly for the political shenanigans Republicans used to get their bill through. Bush officials lied about the numbers and threatened to fire Medicare\'s chief actuary if he shared honest cost estimates with Congress. House Republicans cut off C-SPAN and kept the roll call open for three hours�as opposed to the requisite 15 minutes�while cajoling the last few votes they needed for passage. Former Majority Leader Tom DeLay was admonished by the House ethics committee for winning the eleventh-hour support of Nick Smith, a Michigan Republican, by threatening to vaporize Smith\'s son in an upcoming election. It\'s worth remembering these moments when Republicans criticize Democratic Majority Leader Harry Reid for his hardball tactics.
\n
\nThe real significance of that episode, however, is not their bad manners, but what Republicans ordered the last time health care was on the menu. Their bill, which stands as the biggest expansion of government\'s role in health care since the creation of Medicare and Medicaid in 1965, created an entitlement for seniors to purchase low-cost drug coverage. Grassleycare, also known as Medicare Part D, employs a complicated structure of deductibles, co-pays, and coverage limits. Thanks to something called the "doughnut hole," drug coverage disappears when out-of-pocket costs reach $2,400, returning only when they hit $3,850. Simply stated, the bill cost a fortune, wasn\'t paid for, is complicated as hell, and doesn\'t do all that much�though it does include coverage for end-of life-counseling, or what Grassley now calls "pulling the plug on grandma."
\n
\nIn their 2009 report to Congress, the Medicare trustees estimate the 10-year cost of Medicare D as high as $1.2 trillion. That figure�just for prescription-drug coverage that people over 65 still have to pay a lot of money for�dwarfs the $848 billion cost of the Senate bill. The Medicare D price tag continues to escalate because the bill explicitly bars the government from using its market power to negotiate drug prices with manufacturers or establishing a formulary with approved medications.
\n
\nAnd unlike the Democratic bills, which won\'t add to the deficit, the bill George W. Bush signed was financed entirely through deficit spending. While Grassley and his colleagues accuse Democrats of harming Medicare through cost cuts, it is their bill that has done the most to hasten Medicare\'s coming insolvency. Between now and 2083, Medicare D\'s unfunded obligations amount to $7.2 trillion according to the trustees. Numbers like these prompted former Comptroller General David M. Walker to call it "... probably the most fiscally irresponsible piece of legislation since the 1960s."
\n
\nGrassley is not alone in his incoherence. Of 28 current Republican senators who were in the Senate back in 2003, 24 voted for the Medicare prescription-drug benefit. Of 122 Republicans still in the House, 108 voted for it. There is not space here to fully review this hall of shame, which includes Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Mike Enzi of Wyoming, Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas, and Orrin Hatch of Utah, among many others. Here is Kansas Republican Sam Brownback in 2003: "The passage of the Medicare bill fulfills a promise that we made to my parents\' generation and keeps a promise to my kids\' generation." Here is Brownback in 2009: "This hugely expensive bill will not lower costs and will not cover all uninsured." Here is Jon Kyl of Arizona: "As a member of the bipartisan team that crafted the Part D legislation, I am committed to ensuring its successful implementation. I will fight attempts to erode Part D coverage."* Kyl now calls Harry Reid\'s legislation: "a trillion-dollar bill that raises premiums, increases taxes, and raids Medicare."
\n
\nThe explanation for this vast collective flip-flop is�have you guessed?�politics. Medicare recipients are much more likely to vote Republican than the uninsured who would benefit most from the Democratic bills. In 2003, Karl Rove was pushing the traditional liberal tactic of solidifying senior support with a big new federal benefit, don\'t worry about how to pay for it. Today, GOP incumbents are more worried about fending off primary challenges from the right, like the one Grassley may face in 2010, or being called traitors by Rush Limbaugh. But what happened the last time they were in charge gives the lie to their claim that they object to expanding government. They only object to expanding government in a way that doesn\'t help them get re-elected.
\nhttps://www.slate.com/default.aspx?id=2238098\r\n \r\n

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EarlyBird

\r\n \r\n I heard rumors yesterday that MAYBE the bill will be passed by/in Februrary 2010!
\r\nAnyone willing to make a bet or to hold your breath?\r\n

EarlyBird

\r\n \r\n OooooooPs - maybe we were wrong on the passage of this HCare bill? They
\r\nseem a bit closer. Of course, it still has to have a Final vote and pass both
\r\nSenate AND Congress. Hmmmmmmm?\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n Here is the tally: https://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchas...are-reform.php
\n
\nI am hoping now that I will not have to go to prison as I will not allow any government to force me to purchase anything and I will do it! Since the details on this bill are shrouded in mystery to me we shall see what we shall see as time goes by.\r\n

just me

\r\n \r\n Gosh Arrow, Its scary when you and I are on the same line of thinking!!!! But, I totally agree with you, that fact that it is so shrouded is scary... The fact that they arent showing us everything, and all the backroom deals... and they take one thing out, with a promise that it will be put back in later.... Its just not setting right!!! I agree with you, why should i pay for something that i dont want!!! Its going to be an interesting couple of years\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n Seems the states (Idaho, Texas, Virginia and likely more) are going to gang up on the Federal Government and sue over this for infrigement on states rights... This could take years as they duke it out in court. Some states have laws that say no one is to be forced to purchase health insurance.
\nBut there is currently a bill somewhere that would erase the states ability to sue the Feds and with the conservative supreme court that has been pushing the NWO forward they don\'t stand a chance....the march to NWO goes on.\r\n

jfh

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\r\n Originally Posted by Arrowwind09\r\n

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Seems the states (Idaho, Texas, Virginia and likely more) are going to gang up on the Federal Government and sue over this for infrigement on states rights...

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I\'m 3 years from Medicare. It would be just my luck if the Supreme Court agrees with these States, giving them the pleasure of removing Medicare, an example of another big gov insurance benefit. I hate to wish my life away; but I can\'t wait until I can get Medicare so I can ditch Blue Cross, who sent me a letter that my insurance will go up next month. The insurance companies have been spending so much money lobbying (bribing/campaigning), that they need more of my money.\r\n

kind2creatures

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\r\n Originally Posted by jfh\r\n

\r\n

I hate to wish my life away; but I can\'t wait until I can get Medicare so I can ditch Blue Cross, who sent me a letter that my insurance will go up next month. The insurance companies have been spending so much money lobbying (bribing/campaigning), that they need more of my money.

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\r\n

Hi jfh! I retired last November, still too young for Medicare. I\'m on a Cobra plan with Kaiser, good coverage for me and my husband. My monthly payment was $1046 ( 4 months at the original rate), and starting March 1st., it went up to $1119. Co-Pays went up too, $5 to $15, $15 to $30...and so on.\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n States are not going to sue about medicare...that is not what I am talking about. Medicare is Federal and all Americans are entitled to it come age. No state can take that benefit away...On the other hand some states believe you cannot force someone to purchase insurance and have it so written into their laws.
\nMedicare is not insurance. It is a federal benefit.\r\n

Mad Scientest

\r\n \r\n jfh
\n
\n I�m curious why you went with a Cobra Plan. I realize that they are required to take everyone and of course they will do so for a price. But have you checked out some other companies? None of them are going to be cheep still I think depending on coverage they should be able to beat Cobra prices.
\n
\n For comparison currently I�m paying about that same amount for 6 months of supplemental coverage to Medicare.
\n
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\n It going to be interesting to see how these states follow up with this litigation. I hope they will really fight for repeal and not just go through a few motions and say �see we tried�.
\n
\n It takes some really tortured logic to claim that the commerce act requires that someone must buy something.\r\n

jfh

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\r\n Originally Posted by Mad Scientest\r\n

\r\n

jfh
\n
\n I�m curious why you went with a Cobra Plan. I realize that they are required to take everyone and of course they will do so for a price. But have you checked out some other companies? None of them are going to be cheep still I think depending on coverage they should be able to beat Cobra prices.
\n
\n .

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That was kind2creatues. I went with Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Texas. Too bad I could not shop within other States.
\n
\nI don\'t think these suits will work against the Federal gov. The Fed trumps the States. Otherwise, I\'m pretty sure the Texas would fight all socialistic entitlements.\r\n

kind2creatures

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\r\n Originally Posted by Mad Scientest\r\n

\r\n

\nI�m curious why you went with a Cobra Plan. I realize that they are required to take everyone and of course they will do so for a price.

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

Hi Mad Scientest,
\n
\nI went with Cobra because I really liked the plan that I had from my work which I was on for years. I have been looking at other plans, mainly because I want to get off the Cobra which will end at a fixed time. I\'ll be more comfortable to find a plan that\'s affordable with an insurance company that I can trust. It doesn\'t appear to be that all of them are reliable. Also, lower monthly premiums to me means higher costs at the doctor/hospital. We don\'t make very many doctor visits, I\'m more concerned about serious issues that may come up, that need extensive medical attention.\r\n

Mad Scientest

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\r\n Originally Posted by kind2creatures\r\n

\r\n

Hi Mad Scientest,
\n
\n I\'ll be more comfortable to find a plan that\'s affordable with an insurance company that I can trust.
\nI can fully appreciate that.
\nIt doesn\'t appear to be that all of them are reliable.
\nNo their not and I\'ve had a couple of them.

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\r\n

A few years before going on SS I went through three different companies. The first two started out with very reasonable rates, but within 6 months they were raising their rates and in little over a year they were double.

\n
\nI finally wound up with a plan that would only cover things like a whole body or maybe a brain transplant from blue cross. All other "minor stuff" was at my expense. As I recall at the time for one person it cost about 450 every two month. However I was in good health, and still am

, and that was good enough to carry me till SS took over.\r\n

jfh

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\r\n Originally Posted by Arrowwind09\r\n

\r\n

States are not going to sue about medicare...that is not what I am talking about. Medicare is Federal and all Americans are entitled to it come age. No state can take that benefit away...On the other hand some states believe you cannot force someone to purchase insurance and have it so written into their laws.
\nMedicare is not insurance. It is a federal benefit.

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

The health program will be an entitlement like Medicare and Social Security. If some of these States could get away with this suit, it probably won\'t stop there.\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n 12 states are now planning suit against the federal government for their state laws declare that such commerce cannot be mandated.
\n
\nIdaho senator said that if they get away for this he will try to arrage for them to mandate the purchase of potatoes by everyone.
\nIt was a terrible selling year for potatoes this past, therefore it would benefit all the good people of the state of Idaho, and therefore the nation also!....but ultimately people here would just rather put up with fickle potaote sales and maintain their freedom.\r\n

just me

\r\n \r\n Years ago, when I was looking into buying insurance for myself, I came across a group, that I was very impressed with...It wasnt really insurance persay, but it was a christian organization that basically had people join the group, each person paid so much monthly, and it went into some type of savings account... If someone in the group got sick, or needed medical attention, then the money would come out of the account and pay for that need...It seemed logical to me at the time, especially since in order to be a part of the group, you had to not smoke or do drugs, and basically had to live a healthy lifestyle... I honestly believe that would work better for alot of people... Now granted, I wouldnt have been able to join at that point, because my weight would have knocked me out of the healthy lifestyle part.... But I dont think I should be forced to pay for something I will not use... If I were to get cancer, I wouldnt use any of the socalled normal procedures, so why should I pay for insurance that will cover that... I dont go to doctors enough to warrrant an insurance company to cover part of the cost...I dont do prescription drugs... so what good will insurance do me????? The only type of insurance I would even want, was if I were to break a bone or be in a car accident.... This just seems like a way for more power... lets make them dependent on us, and then we can make them our slaves!!!\r\n

liverock

\r\n \r\n Its money for jam for the insurance companies.............all those single men or elderly couples paying for "maternal and new born costs" as the bill describes them.

\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n I would not pay a fine I would go to jail. What is needed is for a million or so people to refuse the fine and go to jail. The states would freak. As it is states are releasing hard core prisoners because they don\'t have the money to detain them anymore.
\n
\nJust me, for aruguments sake, I can see that you might want to refuse cancer treatment and that is your choice, but what would happen if the EMTs peeled you off the pavement took you to the hospital and the docs repaired 4 broken bones, put in 600 sutures, performed a skin graft on your knees, had you on a vent for week, and were patiently waiting for your head injury to reslove, as the tests that cost $3,000 indicate shows that you will recover. Total bill $418,000.(to be conservative)..... Who pays?\r\n

just me

\r\n \r\n Wouldnt my auto insurance policy pay for that... or the policy of the guy who hit me... thats why i pay the price of my insurance... I dont go alot.... I might drive 50 miles a week, but I dont even think that.... we stay close to home... I dont go to amusement parks, wont ride the rides.... I dont go bunji jumping or airplane riding or anything else that might hurt me... While I may have a high pain tolerance (well use to years ago) I dont like pain, I dont like putting my body in a position that it could crash....I watch AFV and I cringe at the stunts, and get goosebumps at the pain that I imagine them folks are feeling.... I am a sissy, I dont even jump on the big trampoline that we have. I was under the understanding, that my auto insurance would cover me if I crash.... guess I better check that out!!!!\r\n

pinballdoctor

\r\n \r\n There is no way that Obamas health care bill should have passed. Yes there are some good things in it but it doesn\'t contain anything in the way of prevention, unless you consider vaccinations preventive medicine. Thats just wrong. Health care will not improve until profit is removed, and the way this bill is set up, that will never happen. In fact, big pharma will make even more money since they will get an additional 30 million customers.
\r\n
\r\nWho is going to pay for all this? Lets see, according to my figures, the U.S. is bankrupt. Congress just gave a trillion dollars to wall street, which in turn, continued to foreclose on millions of mortgage holders. Millions are unemployed or working only part time hours, fighting two un-winable wars on top of a trillion dollar budget to the military industrial complex, not to mention all the greed and corruption all the way to the top of government. Add to that 2.3 million people in prison. There is a new prison being built every week somewhere in the U.S. while cutbacks are made in education, schools, police and fire services.
\r\nYou can look at the health care bill any way you want, but the bottom line is simple. Its easier to prevent a disease than to have to fight it. Obama is looking out for the people who donated bigtime to his campaign. That would be big pharma.
\r\n
\r\nObesity will continue to rise, and at some point, will cause a crash of the whole system. Wishful thinking won\'t change that.\r\n

EarlyBird

\r\n \r\n Yesterday the US began removing all kinds of vehicals and equipment from Iraq!
\r\nKatie Couric reported this on pm National News last evening. Much is being
\r\nforwarded to Afghanistan, some left for use by Iraq soldiers for furure/present
\r\nuse. The price tag for this is in the Billions!\r\n

just me

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\r\n \r\n Yesterday the US began removing all kinds of vehicals and equipment from Iraq!
\nKatie Couric reported this on pm National News last evening. Much is being
\nforwarded to Afghanistan, some left for use by Iraq soldiers for furure/present
\nuse. The price tag for this is in the Billions! \r\n \r\n

\r\n

I would be curious to know how much of that equipment and vehicles that are supposedly being removed are actually just being moved to a different town!.. Another curiosity is that all the equipment is being moved out, while all the soldiers are still there!!! Glad to see they are being kept safe! Im beginning to feel like everyone is so worried about making sure our new president is made to look good, that they are putting everyone elses lives at stake...\r\n

Donee

\r\n \r\n Hey pinball-' + '-
\n
\nRe:
\n
\n"Obama is looking out for the people who donated bigtime to his campaign. That would be big pharma."
\n
\nAdd to those: Labor union bosses and trial lawyers

\n
\nAlso, he is opposed to anyone who doesn\'t want his brand of change, where change means transformation from a republic to a socialist-dictatorship.\r\n

EarlyBird · � #1 � 12-14-2009, 07:15 AM

For some reason I'm very seriously doubting there will be a Healthcare Bill passed
in 2009. I just don't see it happening before the end of the year! It's become a
political ping-pong game.
Agree? Disagree?

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