ha ha ha. Clearly you are brainwashed and a hopless case as you cannot see the forest throught the trees. Null became sick because the manufacturer of his product made it incorrectly to no fault of Null.

https://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/daily-brief/2010/04/28/diet-doctor-gary-null-sues-over-dietary-supplement/

On the other hand pharmaceutical companies hide the studies that show that their products are dangerous and all these doctors who think the drug industry is akin to god push their poison and kill people daily.

Of course alternative medicine makes money. People spend money to either poison themselves or cure themselves. Unfortuanately when they are busy poisoning themselves they don't understand what they are doing . You are in the business of posions. Period.

You are a lost cause and you will never overcome your deficiency that has been placed upon you by your educational brainwashing. One day you will awaken to notice that all your patients never really get better from anything. Their diseases only become more chronic with time utill they are eventually overcome and they die. They had come to you for help but you are drug pusher not a healer.. too bad. Another lost mind and so many lost opportunities... when that day comes, your realization on what you have wasted, you will remember that Arrowwind told you so.

I will leave you alone now. But man, your just too funny.... or is the word pathetic?

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What type of response is that? Drack has come to the board in good faith, he is not a troll (like Bill5). He wants serious discussion, whether you agree with him or not, he is polite and just wants to understand where we are coming from.

Drack is pro vaccine, pro drugs, believes in chemo, radiation, (regardless of side effects) does not believe there is a cure for anything, only "management", and is part of the problem, not the solution.

He will never change no matter what evidence is presented to him because he is stuck in the same paradigm as his mentors, and is already owned by big pharma.

Arrows response to Drack is quite reasonable, considering he is in the wrong forum.

You know first hand how you were treated in mainstream health forums discussing the dangers of vaccines, or x-rays, or drugs.. Why should he be treated any different coming here and pushing vaccines, aspirin, etc..

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Let Food Be Your Medicine And Medicine Be Your Food.(Hippocrates)

As mad as I have been lately with doctors, I want to say that I do not believe God would have called His Son and "Great Physician" if the word was considered horrible.

I have traveled to Dallas, Denver, Tulsa and more listening to many who were very serious about helping people. Most had studied Mannatech but also shared about so many things we do that harm our bodies.

I wish there was a way to help them not lose their license for sharing what they know in their offices. It is very wrong how the wealthy took over our health care but it is so good to see the truth coming out too.

I do notice that more and more are becoming D.O.'s and thank goodness. If it had not been for one calling us to tell the doctor to give our daughter the fungal antibiotic, well God would have healed her another way but it did work.

Even after cancer and alhemizer's is a thing of the past, we probably will see doctors learning a great deal more about plant based medicine.

My thought is to keep sharing in love with everyone we know.

I think that Drack's point of view and perspective should be considered, and I give him credit for posting on a natural medicine forum. I agree that he's not a troll, and a reasonable two-way conversation on both sides will benefit all of us. If he can point out positive aspects of conventional medicine, I'm open to hearing them. There are some newer medical treatments/procedures that can be appreciated by all.

Many of us have had bad experiences with doctors in the US, and I think it's refreshing to hear of a younger doctor who's willing to discuss the pros and cons of all medical care. I think although he's stated that he's not here to learn, just the fact that he is open to hearing about natural treatments such as acupuncture, herbs, etc. is a plus that we should respect. Many of us have already welcomed Drack to the board, and I think if both sides are willing, then reasonable discussion can take place. That's got to be a good thing. Drack, you give an opposing view on many things, and as long as you are open-minded, I'm glad you're here with us to represent your profession and to understand some of our concerns.

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"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanual Kant~

NatMedTalk and Beyond

Statements like this do not have a place in rational conversation.

Hello Drack,

well done for coping with the multiple conversations on this thread!

I don't think we'll ever get anywhere with the Qi argument. Just one thing though: the fact that people can have a sense of religious conviction and be wrong doesn't mean that the whole endeavour of directly exploring consciousness is invalid, any more than the fact that people can come to wrong scientific conclusions makes the whole endeavour of systematically observing sensory phenomena invalid, or the fact that you can take a wrong turning in the street makes going out of the house invalid. The difference is that it is totally impossible to succeed in exploring consciousness by approaching it in terms of conceptual thought. The science of consciousness works in a totally different way to the science of matter. It has been more or less lost in our culture. It is extremely important.

The statement I was referring to is when you said that you believe in acupuncture because there is some statistical evidence for it, but you dismiss the traditional theory. I am saying that you are unwise to dismiss something when you have a wrong idea about what kind of thing it is. It's like judging a horse for being a bad donkey, and at the same time not even knowing what a horse is except for what the donkey industry says.

I couldn't read that article you linked to because I don't have the spare �150 lying around to subscribe to the BMJ because I'm not a multi-billion dollar megacorporation and I help people in my community for free and low cost. Ever see GlaxoWellcomeSmithKlineBeecham doing that? Unfortunately, vital information about what doctors are doing to us is not available to the public.

I'm not necessarily saying that it is wrong for you (within the logic of your own paradigm, which I don't actually accept) to prescribe treatments on your best judgement based on less than complete evidence. I was actually making a reductio argument. I'm objecting to the double standard that sneers at so-called alternative medicine as superstitious quackery bought by a bunch of woolly-headed naive lentil-wearing mushroom-worshiping lunatics unless it has been 'proved' (a nonsense word) by randomly-reviewed-peer-controlled placebo in unum Meum etc etc forever and ever amen, but allows all sorts of pragmatic criteria for any medical technique produced and sold by the pharmaceutical and medical equipment industries. You still haven't dealt with that question. I don't see how I can make it any clearer.

I wish more doctors would come here for discussion...they might actually learn if nothing else than that medicine is not a perfect science and that is why they need to keep an open mind ..I have found too many doctors cannot or will not think outside the medical text book ..there is more to healing than what is already written

Because some jackoff was rude to me on another board does not give me the right to be rude someone totally different on a board like this (unlike main stream health forums, natmedtalk is for more open minded individuals).

Just like Wake Forest growing bladders outside the body in eight weeks, the lung tissue too can regenerate.

There are very few doctors who would be able to believe this much less understand it without watching Wake Forest video. And even then, they would not think someone could purchase a product that allowed the body to regenerate the lungs - they would think it only possible with prescription.

The people I know did not back off on meds though until they were able to breathe better first.

I know Dr. Oz is a big TV personality since he was introduced by Oprah years ago, and although I don't agree with everything he teaches like taking annual flu vaccinations, I'm very impressed that he acknowledges the value of whole foods, alternative treatments and supplements like omega 3s, vitamin D3, Milk Thistle, etc. Dr. Weil is another good example of a doctor who sees the whole picture, and thinks outside of a medical text. To me that shows that they really care about helping others.

I think this is the crux of the matter. Drake does admit TCM works and therefore qi doesn't have to be proven. So, if a treatment works, why does it have to be proven? Prove that it's not dangerous and doesn't have side effects! The problem is what tuina presents so well in his posts--why are doctors pinned down to what is proven? It's out of control, it goes beyond what is practical and beneficial. Everything can't be proven anyway, especially at this stage in our understanding of the human body.

This cry for what can be proven has become a shield behind which those who are not looking out for the best interests of the people can hide behind.

It's even being used in environmental disaster sites where people are seeking compensation for health problems. It can't be proven that the people who live near these sites got their health problems from the sites even though it's obvious, so we won't give them anything.

You're right, we should treat him with a little more respect.

I just couldn't help getting angry at him since he goes against everything I believe, by continuing to support "treatments" that have been shown to have little to no benefit.

We have to allow everyone an equal opportunity to voice their opinion.

Oh they absolutley know its not a perfect science for they bury their durg poisoned patients and their mistakes frequently. That in and of itself is their proof that they face daily... but they don't let it get in their way from doing the same old same old that brings in those paychecks.

Quite eloquent, tunia. I particularly like the donkey/horse analogy. You have a gift for the written word seen through out your reply.

I would disagree. Vital information is available to the public about what doctors do to us. Its just a matter of leaning what key words to put in the intenet search tool.. and the god given intelligence to see that all is wrong and to start asking why. All we need to know is out there in volumes, across the the internet either. Ask and you shall receive. It is a war you know. .. and alternative health is winning largely because of the internet.. but we have forefathers also to thank who perservered against all odds.

The police enforcers/military are the FDA, the USDA, codex, WTO, the pharmaceutical companies and corrupt judges or judges that care not for the US constitution and our right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.. Alternative health has no army but of good people who desire to know, find and teach the truth.