Where will Gas Prices end up soon?

Jack Pine Savage

\r\n \r\n I had a friend, a number of years ago, who was a
\r\nmember of the Oil Man\'s Club, both in Houston and
\r\nin Oklahoma City.
\r\n
\r\nHe died in the crash of his private jet.
\r\n
\r\nI can recall a conversation we had in the \'70\'s
\r\nregarding gas, oil supplies and the long lines at
\r\nthe gas pumps.
\r\n
\r\nWhen I asked how we could be running out of these
\r\nnatural resources, he said, "We\'re not."
\r\n
\r\nWhen I questioned the situation at hand and whether
\r\nor not the gov\'t. was going to step in and make the
\r\noil indutry comply with their wishes, he said, "We do
\r\nwhatever we want to. There\'s no official who can
\r\ncontrol us."
\r\n
\r\nSeems like he was right.\r\n

EarlyBird

\r\n \r\n Yer dern right Buddy - Certainly NOT w/an oil man for our
\r\npresident. :x
\r\n
\r\nI\'ve got my own little war w/big oil going on - I\'m going Nowhere
\r\nthat I don\'t absolutely have to. I\'m even switching my foot doctor
\r\nand planning to find a new GP, both who will be closer to where
\r\nI live now.\r\n

Mad Scientest

\r\n \r\n Review of some old tips for getting better mileage.
\r\n
\r\n1. Make sure tires are properly inflated. Also consider adding and extra 2-3 pounds of air, this will lower rolling resistance.
\r\n
\r\n2. Avoid fast starts and frequent speed changes. Increase speed gradually. Imagine you have an egg taped the accelerator pedal and you are trying not to break it as you step on the gas.
\r\n
\r\n3. Avoid fast stops. Coast up stop signs, try timing stop lights so you do not need to come to a full stop.
\r\n
\r\nBy using just these three techniques while driving friend wife�s old gas-guzzler in an "economy run" I was able to double its normal mileage.
\r\n
\r\n4. Plan you outings so as to make two or three trips at one time, a fully warmed up engine uses less fuel then starting a cold engine for two or three short trips.
\r\n
\r\n5. Use the lowest/cheapest octane fuel you car will tolerate. In most newer cars the computer will compensate for the difference in fuel grades, particularly if the car is driven for economy rather then performance.
\r\n
\r\n6. Add two ounces of acetone to every ten gallons of gas, also if you can try to buy gas that does not have alcohol added to it.
\r\n
\r\n7. And of course the most obvious, when possible walk rather then drive.
\r\n
\r\n
\r\n[Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?]\r\n

Jack Pine Savage

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

Quote:

\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n

\r\n \r\n

\r\n Originally Posted by Jack Pine Savage\r\n \r\n

\r\n

I had a friend, a number of years ago, who was a
\r\nmember of the Oil Man\'s Club, both in Houston and
\r\nin Oklahoma City.

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

I recalled another conversation I had with...(I\'ll just call
\r\nhim Ralph)
\r\n
\r\nBack in the 70\'s, the US Congress, in their wisdom,
\r\nput into place a two tiered pricing structure for oil.
\r\n
\r\nForeign oil was embargoed to add several dollars/barrel
\r\nover domestic oil. Their \'logic\' was that this would help
\r\nour own oil producers to sell their product over the
\r\n"dastardly" Arab producers.
\r\n
\r\nImmediately, after this bill was signed, the Texas refineries
\r\nwould load their product into oil tankers and sail them out
\r\ninto the Gulf of Mexico into \'International\' waters (about 15 miles)
\r\nand send them back to port. They added the price of the oil
\r\nembargo to comply with the \'foreign oil\' regulation created
\r\nby the US Congress.
\r\n
\r\nStill think you can outsmart these guys?

\r\n

Mad Scientest

\r\n \r\n I haven�t heard of that one. But I guess to politicians that would make perfect sense.
\r\nSort of like when they tell us they are going to eliminate poverty by simply raising the minimum wage.

\r\n
\r\n[Hi! I am from the government and I�m here to help you.]\r\n

EarlyBird

\r\n \r\n I totally agree, Mad S. I\'ve said for years that Gov is
\r\nNOT OUR FRIEND, and skeptical friends of mine thought
\r\nI was a disloyal.

Now that they\'ve experienced the
\r\nMedicare Part D mess, they\'re agreeing w/me

\r\n
\r\nThey\'re into the donut hole and it\'s no fun

\r\n

EarlyBird

\r\n \r\n Gasoline now up to 3.19.9 per gal., tho a few at 3.15.9 if
\r\nyou can find one. :x

\r\n

Aardvark

\r\n \r\n Still 2.89 in far west Kentucky. Not sure how long that will last.\r\n

EarlyBird

\r\n \r\n Probably NOT long after this latest bad news about
\r\nAlaskan pipeline breakdown. Looks like this is the year,
\r\nof "IF it can go wrong, it WILL."

:x\r\n

EarlyBird

\r\n \r\n Hey, Bless Bess! We\'re down to $2.57 per gal now.
\r\nThank God that Ernesto pooped out

\r\n

Mad Scientest

\r\n \r\n Wow! $2.57 This morning when I was out the best I saw was $2.95. I guess I will have to drive down there to fill up.

\r\n

scorpiotiger

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

Quote:

\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n

\r\n \r\n

\r\n Originally Posted by Mad Scientest\r\n

\r\n

Wow! $2.57 This morning when I was out the best I saw was $2.95. I guess I will have to drive down there to fill up.

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

\nwhat is the price now?\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n Try $4.07 for regular!\r\n

Xania

\r\n \r\n Oh, how I would love to pay that amount.
\n
\nIn UK, we pay $11.48 a gallon. Eleven, forty eight.\r\n

Boss

\r\n \r\n You might if you drive, fortunately I use Buses so I don\'t pay zippo for Petrochemicals of that kind.
\n
\nNot trying to sound flash brashy or boastful saying that, but frankly I can\'t see any reasons to ever make me drive again, and hey if I don\'t have to give the crappy Government, some opt-out taxes they might misuse, I\'ll opt-out and keep them.\r\n

scorpiotiger

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

Quote:

\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n

\r\n \r\n

\r\n Originally Posted by Boss\r\n

\r\n

You might if you drive, fortunately I use Buses so I don\'t pay zippo for Petrochemicals of that kind.
\n
\nNot trying to sound flash brashy or boastful saying that, but frankly I can\'t see any reasons to ever make me drive again, and hey if I don\'t have to give the crappy Government, some opt-out taxes they might misuse, I\'ll opt-out and keep them.

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

boss.. if you ride the bus, you are paying for petrochemicals.. you are just paying indirectly.
\n
\nand... you will see prices go up if the cost of the fuel running that bus goes up.\r\n

jfh

\r\n \r\n I know it is very painful; but nothing cures high prices but high prices. When a commodity gets way overpriced, the people, with the purses, know how to fix it.
\n
\nRemember the irrational exuberance in the USA 2001 stock market? Remember the incredibly high prices of houses in most parts of the USA?
\n
\nIs this a bubble that can burst too? If so, it will hurt innocent bystanders; but it will be cured. My guess is that the people will shout for more money to be poured into alternate energy research and that it comes to market sooner than it is ready. GM is already trying to divorce itself from the oil companies.\r\n

just me

\r\n \r\n And what about the idea that is being passed around the internet about buying only american gas. If we buy at these gas stations that supposedly dont get their gas from the saudis, is it actually going to do any good\r\n

Arrowwind09 · 08:59 PM

\r\n \r\n How do you only purchase American gas? What is America gas? Where do you find it. I think the price of oil from rigs in US territory is the same price as oil from OPEC. NO?
\n
\nAll around the nation there are co-ops for electricity. It is owned by the local community. Now with oil claims are made and staked by the big oil companies. They do the work and get the oil out and make profit and we pay for it. It is really our oil. It is nationally owned oil. I think the US should take back its oil, run the drilling and rigs and refineries and let moderate profits benefit the people and go to rebuilding the infrastructure.
\n
\nNow. isn\'t that just socialist? Hell. NO! Those capitalist === have been taking us for a ride for way too long.
\n
\nWe should take back what is ours.
\n
\nI found this written by someone else on another list and it summed up a conversation I had with neighbors the other day..
\n
\n"It is past time to nationalize the oil industry. Fuel is a national commodity, essential to our well being as an independent nation. We, as a country, are being held hostage by an elete group of corporate officers and stockholders who seek only to benefit themselves with unconsionable salaries and obscene profits. Few can afford to "buy in" to this largess because we are paying through high taxes and high oil prices for access to a system in which we could participate if it were not for the tax breaks to oil companies and the confiscatory oil prices. As tax paying citizens, we have paid for the oil industry and now it is time for us to receive the equity."
\n_________________\r\n

Mad Scientest

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

Quote:

\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n

\r\n \r\n

\r\n Originally Posted by Arrowwind09\r\n

\r\n

\n
\n

\r\n

Quote:

\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n

\r\n \r\n "It is past time to nationalize the oil industry. Fuel is a national commodity, essential to our well being as an independent nation. We, as a country, are being held hostage by an elete group of corporate officers and stockholders who seek only to benefit themselves with unconsionable salaries and obscene profits. Few can afford to "buy in" to this largess because we are paying through high taxes and high oil prices for access to a system in which we could participate if it were not for the tax breaks to oil companies and the confiscatory oil prices. As tax paying citizens, we have paid for the oil industry and now it is time for us to receive the equity."\r\n \r\n

\r\n

_________________

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

I�m all for free trade and capitalism and feel that government should typically just stay out of the way.
\n However what we have here is not free trade and capitalism but rather a monopoly. It is way past time for government to step in an break up these companies.\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

Quote:

\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n

\r\n \r\n

\r\n Originally Posted by Mad Scientest\r\n

\r\n

I’m all for free trade and capitalism and feel that government should typically just stay out of the way.
\n However what we have here is not free trade and capitalism but rather a monopoly. It is way past time for government to step in an break up these companies.

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

How can they break these up? How do you break up Exxon and Standard Oil (Chevron), Mobil,?
\n
\nNations just need to walk in and take control. Gradually buy the stock holders out. Locally owned coops have been working great for electric for many years. Why should exxon and these others own what runs under all our feet? and have such immense profits while people can\'t barely keep warm in the winter? And now their doings are national security issues and they don\'t seem to have national security nor our best interests in mind. This way the price of oil can be controlled.
\n
\nNow Im no big fan of the Mexican Government, but one thing I can tell you is that they are not paying $5 a gallon at the pump. Pemex, the national gas station, is owned and operated by the government since their takeover of Standard Oil (Chevron - John D Rockefeller). The only reason Pemex is in trouble today is because the government is so corrupt and they never developed the scientific and industrial community to keep it straight.
\n
\n
\nPublicly used natural resources that the economy and people rely upon for survival should be controlled by the people not corporations that hit and run, bid the prices up, salute to foreign controls like OPEC. They are not national corporations with any national allegiance nor conscious, they are One World Order Corporations..... think NASA as a model...think the American Society of Civil Engineers to take on the task.\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n Hey, JFH, that\'s what I was more or less saying on this thread...
\n
\n/f79/3133-alternative-fuel-sources.html\r\n

jfh

\r\n \r\n There is just nothing that can cure high prices like high prices. So many small businesses and individuals are hunting for alternative fuels.
\n
\nhttps://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4133668.ece
\n
\nScientists find bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol
\nSilicon Valley is experimenting with bacteria that have been genetically altered to provide \'renewable petroleum\'

Quote:
\n
\n�Ten years ago I could never have imagined I�d be doing this,� says Greg Pal, 33, a former software executive, as he squints into the late afternoon Californian sun. �I mean, this is essentially agriculture, right? But the people I talk to � especially the ones coming out of business school � this is the one hot area everyone wants to get into.�
\n
\nHe means bugs. To be more precise: the genetic alteration of bugs � very, very small ones � so that when they feed on agricultural waste such as woodchips or wheat straw, they do something extraordinary. They excrete crude oil.
\n
\nUnbelievably, this is not science fiction. Mr Pal holds up a small beaker of bug excretion that could, theoretically, be poured into the tank of the giant Lexus SUV next to us. Not that Mr Pal is willing to risk it just yet. He gives it a month before the first vehicle is filled up on what he calls �renewable petroleum�. After that, he grins, �it�s a brave new world�.
\n
\nMr Pal is a senior director of LS9, one of several companies in or near Silicon Valley that have spurned traditional high-tech activities such as software and networking and embarked instead on an extraordinary race to make $140-a-barrel oil (�70) from Saudi Arabia obsolete. �All of us here � everyone in this company and in this industry, are aware of the urgency,� Mr Pal says.
\nRelated Links
\n
\n * Biofuel: a tankful of weed juice
\n
\n * The arithmetic of crude oil
\n
\nWhat is most remarkable about what they are doing is that instead of trying to reengineer the global economy � as is required, for example, for the use of hydrogen fuel � they are trying to make a product that is interchangeable with oil. The company claims that this �Oil 2.0� will not only be renewable but also carbon negative � meaning that the carbon it emits will be less than that sucked from the atmosphere by the raw materials from which it is made.
\n
\nLS9 has already convinced one oil industry veteran of its plan: Bob Walsh, 50, who now serves as the firm�s president after a 26-year career at Shell, most recently running European supply operations in London. �How many times in your life do you get the opportunity to grow a multi-billion-dollar company?� he asks. It is a bold statement from a man who works in a glorified cubicle in a San Francisco industrial estate for a company that describes itself as being �prerevenue�.
\n
\nInside LS9�s cluttered laboratory � funded by $20 million of start-up capital from investors including Vinod Khosla, the Indian-American entrepreneur who co-founded Sun Micro-systems � Mr Pal explains that LS9�s bugs are single-cell organisms, each a fraction of a billionth the size of an ant. They start out as industrial yeast or nonpathogenic strains of E. coli, but LS9 modifies them by custom-de-signing their DNA. �Five to seven years ago, that process would have taken months and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars,� he says. �Now it can take weeks and cost maybe $20,000.�
\n
\nBecause crude oil (which can be refined into other products, such as petroleum or jet fuel) is only a few molecular stages removed from the fatty acids normally excreted by yeast or E. coli during fermentation, it does not take much fiddling to get the desired result.
\n
\nFor fermentation to take place you need raw material, or feedstock, as it is known in the biofuels industry. Anything will do as long as it can be broken down into sugars, with the byproduct ideally burnt to produce electricity to run the plant.
\n
\nThe company is not interested in using corn as feedstock, given the much-publicised problems created by using food crops for fuel, such as the tortilla inflation that recently caused food riots in Mexico City. Instead, different types of agricultural waste will be used according to whatever makes sense for the local climate and economy: wheat straw in California, for example, or woodchips in the South.
\n
\nUsing genetically modified bugs for fermentation is essentially the same as using natural bacteria to produce ethanol, although the energy-intensive final process of distillation is virtually eliminated because the bugs excrete a substance that is almost pump-ready.
\n
\nThe closest that LS9 has come to mass production is a 1,000-litre fermenting machine, which looks like a large stainless-steel jar, next to a wardrobe-sized computer connected by a tangle of cables and tubes. It has not yet been plugged in. The machine produces the equivalent of one barrel a week and takes up 40 sq ft of floor space.
\n
\nHowever, to substitute America�s weekly oil consumption of 143 million barrels, you would need a facility that covered about 205 square miles, an area roughly the size of Chicago.
\n
\nThat is the main problem: although LS9 can produce its bug fuel in laboratory beakers, it has no idea whether it will be able produce the same results on a nationwide or even global scale.
\n
\n�Our plan is to have a demonstration-scale plant operational by 2010 and, in parallel, we�ll be working on the design and construction of a commercial-scale facility to open in 2011,� says Mr Pal, adding that if LS9 used Brazilian sugar cane as its feedstock, its fuel would probably cost about $50 a barrel.
\n
\nAre Americans ready to be putting genetically modified bug excretion in their cars? �It�s not the same as with food,� Mr Pal says. �We�re putting these bacteria in a very isolated container: their entire universe is in that tank. When we�re done with them, they�re destroyed.�
\n
\nBesides, he says, there is greater good being served. �I have two children, and climate change is something that they are going to face. The energy crisis is something that they are going to face. We have a collective responsibility to do this.�

\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n I am confident that in not too long a time we will become oil independent from the middle east. Now that the corn bio-fuel crops are wiped out due to floods in middle America perhaps we will have some time to come to our senses!
\n
\nWhat you write about Jim, is like biophages, used to cure some infectious diseases! I am still a little leery of PRODUCING new microbes.\r\n

just me

\r\n \r\n How can you find out if an oil company is actually getting their oil from where? My son sent me this email
\n
\n

\r\n

Quote:

\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n

\r\n \r\n Gas rationing in the 70\'s worked even though we grumbled about
\nit. It might even have been good for us!
\n Are you aware that the Saudis are boycotting American
\nproducts?
\n In addition, they are gouging us on oil prices. Shouldn\'t we return
\nthe favor? Can\'t we take control of our own destiny and let these giant
\noil importers know who REALLY generates their profits, their livings? How
\nabout leaving American Dollars in America and reduce the import/export
\ndeficit?
\nAn appealing remedy might be to boycott their GAS. Every time
\nyou fill up your car you can avoid putting more money into the coffers
\nof Saudi Arabia . Just purchase gas from companies that don\'t import =
\ntheir oil from the Saudis. Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill up my tank, I\'m sending my money to people who I get the
\nimpression want me, my family and my friends dead. The following gas companies
\nimport Middle Eastern oil:
\n
\n Shell.................................... 205,742,000 =
\nbarrels
\n
\n Chevron/Texaco.................... 144,332,000 barrels
\n
\n Exxon /Mobil........................ 130,082,000 barrels
\n
\n Marathon/Speedway............. 117,740,000 barrels
\n
\n Amoco.................................. 62,231,000
\nbarrels
\n
\n And CITGO oil is imported from Venezuela by Dictator Hugo
\nChavez who hates America and openly avows our economic destruction! (We pay
\nChavez\'s regime nearly $10 Billion per year in oil revenues!)
\n
\nThe U.S. currently imports 5,517,000 barrels of crude oil per
\nday from OPEC. If you do the math at $100 per barrel, that\'s over
\n$550 million PER DAY ($200 BILLION per year!) handed over to OPEC, many of
\nwhose members are our confirmed enemies!!!!! It won\'t stop here - oil
\nprices could go to $200 a barrel or higher if we keep buying their
\nproduct.
\n
\n Here are some large companies that do not import Middle
\nEastern oil:
\n Sunoco......................... 0 barrels
\n Conoco........................ 0 barrels
\n Sinclair....................... 0 barrels
\n BP / Phillips................ 0 barrels
\n Hess. ............................. 0 barrels
\n ARC0............................. 0 barrels
\n Maverick......................... 0 barrels
\n Flying J. ........................... 0 barrels
\n Valero............................ 0 barrels
\n Murphy Oil USA * ............. 0 Sold at Wal-Mart , gas is
\nfrom South Arkansas and fully USA owned and produced.
\n
\n *Not only that but they give scholarships to all children in
\ntheir town who finish high school and are legal US citizens..
\n
\n
\n
\n All of this information is available from the U.S. Department
\nof Energy and each company is required to state where they get their oil
\nand how much they are importing.\r\n \r\n

\r\n

So I was curious about murphy oil.... wiki says
\n
\n

\r\n

Quote:

\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n

\r\n \r\n Murphy Oil Corporation NYSE: MUR is a petroleum corporation. It is a S&P 500 company. In 2007, it was ranked as the 169th largest company in America on the Fortune 500. Corporate headquarters are in El Dorado, Arkansas.
\nThe current President & CEO is Claiborne Deming.[1]
\nMurphy is a partner in the Hibernia Oil development off Newfoundland and Labrador.[2]
\nMurphy owns the Spur brand of oil and gasoline.
\nThe company operates a chain of retail gasoline outlets throughout the southeast and mid-west marketed under the name Murphy USA, located at Wal-Mart locations on land once leased from Wal-Mart. The company announced in May 2007 that it would purchase all land in which it owns outlets, from Wal-Mart and would also close 47 locations.
\nThe Murphy USA stations offer a discount to consumers of 3 cents per gallon by purchasing a gift card from Wal-Mart and using it at the station or by using a Wal-Mart credit card at the station. Some states, such as Alabama, have loss-leader laws against such practices. In those cases, the company rebates 3 cents per gallon on Wal-Mart Credit Card purchases at the time of the statement, not at the pump.
\nIn an effort to reduce credit transaction processing fees from major credit card brands, the company announced in January 2007 that it signed an agreement with National Payment Card to implement Driver\'s License ACH payment system to break the Credit/Debit Card processing stranglehold where by consumer will receive a per gallon discount when used.
\nAt the end of August, 2005, Hurricane Katrina damaged part of the large Murphy facility in Meraux, Louisiana [3], but, as of August 2006, the facility is back in working order.
\nThe United Kingdom subsidiary is Murco Petroleum Ltd.
\n
\n[edit] El Dorado Promise
\n
\nIn January of 2007, Murphy announced that it would set aside $50 million to ensure that every student graduating from the local school system, in El Dorado, would be able to afford college. The scholarship, which requires that students spend a certain number of years in the El Dorado school system and maintain a 2.0 G.P.A. while in college, pays tuition and all mandatory fees for students, limited to the highest annual rate currently charged by an Arkansas public university, currently $6,010.\r\n \r\n

\r\n

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy_Oil_Corporation
\n
\n
\nI went to the dept of energy website... and it basically said no one knows for sure whos oil is where???? But we apparently get more oil from canada then from saudi???? Im guessing the email isnt correct... I was going to start buying oil from the murphy oil company.....
\nhttps://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...nt/import.html\r\n

EarlyBird · � #1 � 07-25-2006, 03:56 AM

I heard on a radio program last evening, that Marathon
Headquarters has reco'ed their station owners to order their
large "number 4's" for their large signs soon, in order to
be prepared for higher gasoline prices, esp on the West
Coast.

:x due probably before the end of '06.

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