The Marshall Protocol, STAY AWAY FROM THIS ONE

[D Bergy]

Most of the people who live the longest also have high cholesterol. So it makes me wonder why any normal person would want to lower the levels to begin with.

Dan

[bbmartin]

Originally Posted by Ted_Hutchinson

So if you want to increase your rate of aging by speeding up the reduction in the level of cholesterol in your skin then using Statins is a good way of doing that, it will of course also reduce your natural ability to make Vitamin d3 and I'm sure you are all aware those with the highest vitamin D3 (and cholesterol) levels live longest.

Thanks Ted! I wasn't aware of that specific datum "those with the highest vitamin D3 (and cholesterol) levels live longest." but it makes sense from what I do know of cholesterol. That would make a very enlightening thread eh?

When I learned that cholesterol is a vital substance that our bodies produce to protect our blood vessels and do a host of other things, and that my cholesterol used to be "too high" but I've had diabetes for my whole life, then I started really suspecting the "cholesterol causes heart disease" theory.

I realized that my body was forming cholesterol to protect my blood vessels which were weakening due to fluctuation blood sugar levels for many years.

Interestingly, my cholesterol levels have decreased as I've managed my blood sugar levels better and eaten much healthier foods.

Cheers,
BB

[Aynurrzepa]

Ji,

i'm new here and also looking for answers about Vit D3, MP etc. I'm currently at antibiotic protocol for Scleroderma (diffuse form but mild, I had it over 30 years ut I'm actually doing fine). My Vit D was very low when I started AP - 6 ng/ml (typical for "autoimmune" disease that scelroderma is) I started taking vit D3 supplements and upped my level to 12 ng/ml over 2 months with a daily dosage of 50,000 IU/day. I continued with that and after another 2 months my levels shot up to an extremely high level 1864 ng/ml! I now stopped supplementation until it's below 100 ng/ml but, I fell fine, never been ill in these 7 months despite people even in close circles getting colds and flus. My SD did not get worse. AP seem to work (combined with systemic enzymes) as my body and face are softening. I am now looking at MMS to replace AP with it as i like the idea that MMS only kill pathogenic microorganisms, leaving the beneficial bacteria intact which is so important. My difficulty is that here in Dubai where I live finding sodium chlorate is a challenge as is flying it in by ordering on internet due to being a hazardous material which courier companies will not touch. Any help here? ready-made MMS is also not a solution as liquids are also not allowed in courier!

[seanlane]

Marshall is now featured in the world renown scientist Craig Venter's new book~

"Metagenomics of the Human Body"

and is also featured in Nature publication~

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...H39ADRq2ZozDPg

I can understand that much of what Trevor Marshall's research is based on a working knowledge of biomedical engineering that most scientist are simply ignorant about...and it is understandable that well meaning people who are not even scientists would question the protocol.

Vitamin D metabolism is very complicated, and stimulating the immune system with Benicar while inhibiting NF~kB is complicated. But throw in a million or so different genomes of bacteria that clearly change the way the immune system works, and you go on to imponderable.

I continue to make sound progress on the MP like my doctor and many other friends on the treatment....it may not be a panacea, everybody may not completely heal....the bacteria load of some people may be to great or their body's are to weak to endure the immunopathology during the protocol. But I am astounded at my recovery from neuropathy,bipolar disorder, food sensitivities, chronic fatigue, psoriasis, and heart arrythmias.....all of which were caused not by low vitamin D...but by infection and dysregulation of the innate immune system caused by intraphagocytic microbiota.

[pinballdoctor]

I am not totally against the use of antibiotics, however, long term use concerns me because they have a dark side that will affect your health in a negative way, years or decades from now. The body is a perfect breeding ground for fungi. It is dark, moist, and the right temperature.

I would consider using natural antibiotics such as colloidal silver, grapefruit seed extract, or even MMS before I used an antibiotic that is made from mold, which is a fungus, because in the end, if the fungal growth isn't stopped, they will eventually kill the host, which is you.

[Arrowwind09]

as pinballdoctor says these following diseases that the MP is suppose to help can all be cured with colloidal silver or MMS if administered appropriately.

"Dr. Marshall's papers describe how numerous Th1 diseases such as sarcoidosis, Lyme disease, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis (among others) are caused by Cell Wall Deficient (CWD) bacteria of various species......"

[RCannon]

Regarding Mg, the time tested epsom salts are primarily magnesium sulfate, and is well absorbed.

Not sure if this was discussed earlier but vit D needs vit A in a precise ratio, best achieved by conversion of carotenoids. Taking active vit A will upset the balance according to Dr Cannell on his vitamindcouncil.org website. Don't have the reference, just remember reading it.

Also since vit D is generated from the sun on skin, there are supposedly other forms of D formed, making the UV a better method. Also sunshine supplies IR heat, raising body temp and penetrating the body and tending to destroy bacteria etc. IR saunas are very effective at raising body temp and sweating out heavy metals etc, another source of food for some bacteria apparently. And of course exercise and circulation is very important to generate things like glutathione and get oxygen to tissues, stimulate nerves and neurogenesis etc. (Power Up your Brain book).

Not to mention acidity- a measure of voltage basically. Need to have the minerals to increase the ph. Some say this is important in killing the pathogens and others not.

[sabrato]

Why did I notice, when looking at the Igenex site, that "ricketssia species other than microti " are NOT ALLOWED TO BE TOLD TO NYS' residents>???????"

Do they already know Q Fever is a huge epidemic there? Who restricted that???? Especially when Igenex' tests differentiate/go more specific to ID the exact TYPE of ricketssia????

Shameful.

[sabrato]

Also had spotted torso/face rash week prior or two, to the bullseye rash coming out at site of sheep tick (during sheep farm vacation w/relatives)--- could be a fifth called Mediterranean Spotted Fever (rickettsia) thats also at play, not much known about. Never addressed by the lyme docs, ignored that spotted rash fact, but RSMF not likely for Europe and comes back neg. appropriately. (Seems docs will only test the most outlandish non-likely things for me...parvovirus? and one out here midwest, saw the hemolytic anemia, thickening skin reminiscent of scleroderma, vit d def, and history of positive Ehrlichia PCR, YET...tried to take me back to the stone age, insisting all my lyme history (5x wb positive, rash, tick bite, 100% symptoms) -- were now somehow "scleroderma"...AND...my cousins wife just died of the dooming diagnosis, more likely Ehrlichia carried to her as I lived in cousins house during onset of illness. (dishwasher present).

ANY vitamin D deficient lymies, ought to be checked for the 5 above, by DNA methods...
Oh, afterthought....one after another of TBI's "pop out" after treating lyme, for this reason:
It used to be thought firmly, "a person can only have one infection of bacteria, at a time", because....
they would only see ONE antibody, and end the quest at that point.
ONLY after treating the one youre fighting, does your immune system reset, to attack number 2. And so on.
Immune systems, are like burglar or motion alarms....the FIRST of any multiple bacteria inserted by a tick, mosquito, etc -- is the one your body fights. It is NOT designed to see more than one. Its also a huge strain on the system. So, when you relieve the body of the lyme fight, it has a chance to notice the next invader....treat it, and the next crops out. This is how it goes - it is not an accident, and all MD's who believe negative = word of god not there, are foolishly ignorant.

[sabrato]

European case studies on ricketssias, have noticed patients having 3 or more at once of ricketssial species. Since all these TBI's, virtually, are "cell wall deficient" ie not a virus, not a walled bacteria like the norm, but an intermediate oddity with no cell wall of it's very own, moving into YOUR cells instead....they hide at all times from blood tests/antibody fight tests, EXCEPT when they are reproducing and migrating to new cells for the offspring -- blood tests cant spot unless WHOLE blood is used and they happen to live in the white/red/platelets etc -- antibody tests seem to be invented by those profiting off the wrong results given to patients -- and much wrong band-aid style treatment and "old" condition names (all of which are incurable, how lucrative is that?) -- DNA tests MUST be invented to include European strains, as even canada recognizes strains not native here, being brought in by migrating BIRDS -- if anything, the strains "not native" here, are simply not being looked for, because of CDC misinformation.

Example: son TWICE in O Midwest state, contracted lyme bullseye + ehrlichia stretchmarks, rash, etc from MOSQUITO bites -- dx'd at two different HOSPITALS -- not reported. I reported personally to CDC with dates, locations, doc names, etc -- still "O state has no lyme" as the official report! This both in 2000, and 2010. (Is lyme a hated enemy to the medical community here?) Referral, to a hospital which treated me decade ago for lyme, referred for the positive ehrlichia w/o treatment, was REFUSED, because "I'd been seen for lyme 10 years ago" -- lyme is not ehrlichia! Amazing outright REFUSAL (dx was another state, for the Ehrlichia) -- to admit lyme has coinfections.

The guy in West Coast, who saw the Ehrlichia PCR, was running an MS/Cystic Fibrosis clinic, and tried to "rename" my lyme to the two of them -- CF is genetic!! Who does he think he was getting over on? Where are all the advisories to the MS patients, that Europe discovered it gets better with antibiotics?? (its lyme et al) BBC published that 12 years ago - the NY Times apparently "forgot" to let us know...and whats with the Nicholson mycoplasma discovery being hushed from last year? Corruption at its very worst.

Docs: forget your phobia over "oh no, we misdiagnosed" -- the LAB COMPANIES are at fault for peddling antibody tests that DO NOT WORK -- if they told YOU, negative, and it was a lie, and the test is garbage, the fault rests on THEM, not your following their info. Docs need to stop letting these "other condition" victims with TBI's, die, and fix that, its beyond unethical, its murder.

[sabrato]

The lyme et al =MS, published by BBC so long ago, was followed by Bowen test confirming that in USA -- lyme was most likely the "plague" of middle ages (no rashes known in plague" -- its preserved in the "ring around the rosie" rhyme -- (ashes ashes, we all fall down, carry the pocket full of posies as an amulet to ward off plague ) -- we ALL have some degree of antibody to it, because those who lived THRU the plague, recovered, and at that time, Europe was NEVER exposed to it before -- same reaction today with some populaces ACUTE from initial lyme, and euro's "vaguely/chronically" more slowly ill --
Did anyone else notice, how within a month or 2 of Bowen results "yes, lyme causes alzheimers and MS" -- docs petitioned congress for a "no sue me" bill, fearing malpractice suits (over the MS people etc being told wrong prognosis/no knowledge abx would cure etc) --
Like I said, docs, THE PHARMACOLOGIC companies are at fault, that ever peddled and still do, those garbage antibody tests, and that cannot be your fault, for following their guidance in the tests. THEY need to take the brunt, and patients with those 2 ailments (and more, scleroderma) need to be cured. EVERYONE has the right to live, and it outweighs your own pocketbooks and legal phobias! For shame, that docs care more for their rich lifestyle, than to help others, which is what doctoring is supposed to be all about!

Hope someone else is helped by the above info, I have learned a ton during this downhill rollercoaster ride of TBI's and have read up for 20+ years now, with 3 docs in my own family and was to be my own career, except lyme struck.

[rainydano]

Hello all,
First time here but I have had arthritis in my hands since 16. Not until 2005 was I so bad that they declared me 100% disabled. In my forties I was walking with knees that were bone on bone. I was never approved for Humira, Embrel, and they have all the side effects of heart attacks, strokes etc I read the protocol and I have a physician that has had success with other patients. I have not been in the sun for 10 yrs due to other meds so my vitamin D is already very low. My BP is usually 115/54 so lowering does not scaere me. We as patients have to fight for the right for our mediucations. I cannot get the BP lowering meds because insurance will not pay. So call your insuraance companies get the meds you need and side affects are with ever drug out there. Read yours, look it up and see what are the possible side affects. I am on all narcontic drugs to take care of my pain so I can walk to my car, or kitch and the bathroom I most always wet myself befor I get there. So I want no narcotics that I have had for 12 years and will ruin my liver, I want the new treatment and all who have inflammatory diseases, may it be Gout, Celiac, RA also should go on a Gluten Free Diet, shown to decrase inflammation. Thans for reafing, I hope it helps and starts us all to fight for the meds we need. Be well

[Solstice Goat]

It would seem that the number of diseases that D seems to combat make it quite compelling.

[Delrettico]

Hello Alchemist,

Yes, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" as the old proverb goes. However, in regard to meandering toward

prevention, a little additional information will help show that the Marshall Protocol offers more than just recovery (or

cure) to the sick. It's science offers insights that are valuable even in the fine art of prevention.

I dare guess that not very many people are aware that a subtle change in theory has been going on over at the Vitamin D

Council. Only a few years ago, it was thought and taught that the two-step conversion of D3 (cholecalciferol) to active

vitamin D (Calcitriol, aka 1,25-D) was unregulated. The more D3 you put in, the more Calcitriol you would get out. There

seemed to be no "saturation" effect to limit the concentration of Calcitriol. A first-order mass-action law could be

assumed.

Now, however, we read at the Vitamin D Council website that Calcitriol is "tightly regulated". This comes from the same

author, Dr. J.J. Cannell, who wrote about unregulated conversion just a few years ago. Research has shown from then to now

that there are feedback pathways that cause Calcitriol regulation.

The implications for this shift in theory are just beginning to be realized. The main well-spring of immediate change is due

to the use of the former theory in establishing the present standardized method of vitamin D testing. That is to say,

because the theory was flawed, the vitamin D testing has been flawed. This is the testing used in most modern vitamin D

research, the basis for the cry that a vitamin D "deficiency" epidemic is going on, world-wide.

Popular Vitamin D theory assumes the simplest idea (that many diseases result from a lack of Vitamin D, as in the case of

Rickets) until proven otherwise. The flawed Vitamin D test for people with many chronic diseases provides false results of

deficiency, so people initially have taken reinforcement to the assumption. But supplementing with Vitamin D3 does not cure

most of the diseases. Something additional is therefore going on that isn't in the simplistic model.

When the Vitamin D Council realizes and teaches that intracellular microbes are interfering with the normal activity of the

Vitamin D Receptor (VDR), and this needs interference needs to be figured into their Vitamin D testing method, then we can

expect a big change in the art and science of prevention, as well as cure.

Vitamin D is a seco-steroid in addition to being a VDR activator. The VDR activation is normally very powerful (in well

people). So a little D3 activates the VDR, turning on the innate immune system (loosely speaking). But when more D3 is

added, the steroid properties suppress that immune system activation. Vitamin D3 is therefore something of a mixed blessing.

When intracellular bacteria take up residence, they have to suppress the innate immune system in order to survive. VDR

activation is part of the Calcitriol regulation pathway, and dysregulation results. The standard vitamin D test measures

Calcidiol, the precursor to Calcitriol. The test typically registers a false "deficiency", and patients are urged to take

more Vitamin D. But instead of stimulating the immune system, the extra vitamin D suppresses. Patients may feel better in

the short run because inflammation goes down, but in the long run, the microbes are better able to proliferate, eventually

overcoming the short-term palliation.

The Marshall Protocol study group's experience seems to show that bacteria are involved because of the Jarish-Herxhimer

reactions that occur when tiny pulsed doses of antibiotics are used. The more comprehensive theory behind the Marshall

Protocol explains it.

So, what level of vitamin D should you use, Alchemist, to "prevent" disease? The Institutes of Medicine recently pointed to

J-curve mortality figures, that seem to indicate a moderate level of Vitamin D is better than either a very tiny amount, or a

large amount. Something is going on that is more complex than a simplistic "deficiency" theory can explain. Take another

look at the information offered in the Marshall Protocol theory, instead of dismissing it out-of-hand, as so many people have

been doing.

What we "should" rather be questioning, is the standard Vitamin D testing procedure, since its flawed assumptions are now

coming under question.

Occam's Razor encourages us not to unnecessarily multiply assumptions. "Everything should be kept as simple as possible",

says a quote I've heard attributed to Einstein, "but not simpler." Unfortunately, the simple assumptions of the Vitamin D

test are "too simple". We look to the Vitamin D experts to come forth with corrections to their former policies and testing

recommendations, now that they have better information in hand.

[Ted_Hutchinson]

Unfortunately the attitude of many people who have tried the Marshall Protocol is that when their experience doesn't fit the expectations of Marshell they get kicked off the site. So looking at the site is not giving a true picture of the overall results.
If you are conducting any sort of trial ALL the RESULTS have to be available for scrutiny.
Not just those that fit your preconcieved ideas.
There has to be independent scrutiny of the results.

The fact remains Traditionally living populations in East Africa have a mean serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentration of 115 nmol/l.]Traditionally living populations in East Africa have a mean serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentration of 115 nmol/l. and these levels naturally rise with pregnancy, lactation and ageing.

When the Marshal protocol reflects how Human DNA evolved to respond to Vitamin D3 perhaps I'll reconsider my views.