Tongkat Ali for Raising Testosterone Levels

Solstice Goat

Frater Aegagrus
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Location
Seattle, WA
Fake Eurycoma longifolia products have been pulled off the shelves in several countries but are still sold over the Internet, mostly shipped from the UK. In a medical journal article, published March 2010, it was noted that "estimates place the proportion of counterfeit medications sold over the Internet from 44% to 90%" with remedies for sexual dysfunction accounting for the greatest share.[33] It is therefore recommended that buyers of Eurycoma longifolia request from Internet vendors conclusive information, and proof, on the facilities where a product has been manufactured.
In Malaysia, the common use of Eurycoma longifolia as a food and drink additive, coupled with a wide distribution of products using cheaper synthetic drugs in lieu of Eurycoma longifolia quassinoids, has led to the invention of an electronic tongue to determine the presence and concentration of genuine Eurycoma longifolia in products claiming to contain it.[34]
Wikipedia


Interesting article.

If one is interested in increasing their testosterone, natural hormones are definitely safer than artificial ones. Additionally, our bodies tend to regulate themselves, which would potentially make this safer still.
 

Grow Young and Slim

New member
Joined
May 18, 2013
Location
Newport Beach, CA
We purchased a very high quality Tongkat Ali and we actually tested it in our lab and it seemed to consistently raise testosterone only around 10% in our in house studies. Though it did seem to increase the nitric oxide levels more than the testosterone boost would suggest, which I personally found intriguing.

Endocrinology is actually our specialty, and I wanted to give some pointers about elevating testosterone.

The first is, when you raise testosterone, you need to control estrogen metabolism. Often testosterone downstreams into 16 hydroxy estrone or a similar estrogen metabolite and sort of negates the purpose. Using DIM or I3C or Chyrsin in testosterone therapy is important.

The second problem is, the body does "rebalance" itself and sometimes too much. When we use supplements or pharmaceuticals to elevate testosterone it also elevates sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and this binds the new testosterone to a carrier protein which prevents it from making its way to the tissues negating the benefits. You can use Avena Sativa to counteract this.

The third problem is that for most people in north america, adrenal fatigue can suppress their catabolic hormones like cortisol. Despite the popular belief which is if you want more testosterone go anabolic only, catabolic and anabolic need to be balanced like a teeter totter for the best results. Otherwise you can get adrenal burnout and feel fatigued, dizzy, and overeat. Essentially this causes the body to not be able to absorb free fatty acids and other nutrients correctly.

In the GYS sponsored forum, I will write an article about testosterone elevation and link products we made for these purposes shortly. Tongkat Ali can give you a little edge but there are far better solutions that work, particularly combining herbs and extracts to keep all the ratios proper to feel your best. Hormones are tricky business.
 

Solstice Goat

Frater Aegagrus
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Location
Seattle, WA
Endocrinology is actually our specialty, and I wanted to give some pointers about elevating testosterone.

Founded by an association of doctors that all met through the New England Journal of Medicine and the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, we have formulated supplements that deal with anti-aging and peak performance. Longevity and optimal health is our goal for every client.

I would be interested in reading some of the studies the individual doctors have written. Any way to do that?
 

Solstice Goat

Frater Aegagrus
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Location
Seattle, WA
Yes I will make some posts in our sponsored section soon about this. While Tongkat Ali study was just in house experiments, I will dig out some of their studies that are relevant to testosterone therapy in a few days.

I would enjoy that, thank you.

Are there any studies your team, or individuals on your team have available now, that are already published elsewhere on the 'net'?
 

Grow Young and Slim

New member
Joined
May 18, 2013
Location
Newport Beach, CA
Dr. Suzie Schuder who works on our team published a few studies you can find here, I know theres a lot of them but I dont have them on hand, I need to ask hehe, I hope we didnt hijack this thread too much x.x

You know, if you want I can get some docs to sit down for natmedtalk and answer questions! Then you guys can hear from our team. Maybe Dr. Delgado, Dr. Ghozland, Dr. Klatz, Dr. Schuder, Dr. Sachdev, Dr. Hertoghe, Dr. Pati, and Dr. Lawrence, and maybe some others would all answer questions at once like a panel. Ill look into setting this up.
 
Last edited:

brg1986

New member
Joined
May 23, 2013
We purchased a very high quality Tongkat Ali and we actually tested it in our lab and it seemed to consistently raise testosterone only around 10% in our in house studies. Though it did seem to increase the nitric oxide levels more than the testosterone boost would suggest, which I personally found intriguing.

Endocrinology is actually our specialty, and I wanted to give some pointers about elevating testosterone.

The first is, when you raise testosterone, you need to control estrogen metabolism. Often testosterone downstreams into 16 hydroxy estrone or a similar estrogen metabolite and sort of negates the purpose. Using DIM or I3C or Chyrsin in testosterone therapy is important.

The second problem is, the body does "rebalance" itself and sometimes too much. When we use supplements or pharmaceuticals to elevate testosterone it also elevates sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and this binds the new testosterone to a carrier protein which prevents it from making its way to the tissues negating the benefits. You can use Avena Sativa to counteract this.

The third problem is that for most people in north america, adrenal fatigue can suppress their catabolic hormones like cortisol. Despite the popular belief which is if you want more testosterone go anabolic only, catabolic and anabolic need to be balanced like a teeter totter for the best results. Otherwise you can get adrenal burnout and feel fatigued, dizzy, and overeat. Essentially this causes the body to not be able to absorb free fatty acids and other nutrients correctly.

In the GYS sponsored forum, I will write an article about testosterone elevation and link products we made for these purposes shortly. Tongkat Ali can give you a little edge but there are far better solutions that work, particularly combining herbs and extracts to keep all the ratios proper to feel your best. Hormones are tricky business.
Is there any testosterone brand that you'd recommend for Testosterone replacement therapy? I was prescribed androgel and I was getting side effects like anxiety and gynecomastia from the coversion to estradiol. I stopped taking the gel a year ago but still have the gyno in the left nipple. I tried I3c (from AOR) but I couldn't take it for more 2 days (experienced bad headaches and mental confusion) from taking 1/8 - 1 capsule and just from smelling it (seriously). What dosage and scheduling would you use the DIM or chryin, avena sativa?
Also for the issue of testicular shrinkage and wanting to remain fertile, some doctors would prescribe low doses of hcg. Is there anything natural that would do this?

While not on the TRT: I took the Pasak Bumi 100:1 extract pills twice a day for 2 months and my blood results in total and free testosterone didn't show significant changes. I was below the reference range for T and after I took tongkat it didnt bring me to within normal. I felt strong effects the first two days of taking it but like alot of supplements i've taken, the effects diminish. I read some people cycle 2 days on 1 day off and had better results.
 

Grow Young and Slim

New member
Joined
May 18, 2013
Location
Newport Beach, CA
All right buddy, here is a complete breakdown because both your issues are common with androgel and your concern about testicular shrinkage is a good one.

I will include a short recommendation here, followed by a long explanation.

Testro Vida Cream ( not available online so please call 866 319 0566 and ask for Rachel its a specialty item)
Testro Vida Capsules
Estro Block PRO
Adrenal DMG or Isocort (your preference)
Trace Minerals we have no affiliation with them but they make the best mineral supplement we've tested and we tip our hats to them for it.

Here is why these are recommended:

First about your anxiety issues - Anxiety isnt actually often caused by estrogen metabolism. While estrogens can make you emotional or moody, anxiety is caused when cortisol and testosterone gets out of balanced and adrenaline starts doing the job cortsiol is supposed to do (more on that here About Cortisol) This is why I recommended Adrenal DMG or Isocort (isocort has a lactose binder in it which causes some allergen issues in some folks, but its fine for most)

Second, Testro Vida Cream is not available online because its not safe for women usually. It does not use your natural production but it is a full on HRT. It uses an extract of Scottish Pine Bark that is bio identical 4-androstenedione which converts directly into testosterone. It has very little estrogen run off and the cream also contains chrysin. Chrysin works best transdermally for reducing estrogen, and I would recommend rubbing the cream for a couple of days on the gyno spot and it should go back to normal. It also contains DHEA and Pregnenolone to help with the balancing of anabolic and catabolic. Everything is in a very appropriate ratio and the amounts are specific to what is needed in Testosterone Replacement.

Third, Testro Vida is recommended so that not only is SHBG controlled but also LH is elevated along with more estrogen control, as well as natural production boosters and this combo should negate any shrinkage worries by keeping your natural levels processing.

Fourth, most DIM and I3C products dont work at all. They use a crystalline form of the extract and every major brand of it that we tested, either did not have clinical dosages or was using these crystalline extracts that dont absorb, they just dont break down and go down the pathways. The reason they do this is because its very expensive to produce.

Our products at GYS are kind of pricey ya know. It's because its the only way the doctors who designed them could get lab results. Our estroblock for example is 29 and others are 15 or so, but ours costs 18 to produce, even in huge order quantities.

What happens is, DIM and I3C both evaporate when heated above 120F or so. When using a chemical extraction, it also tends to "burn" the molecule and render it in effective. People use masking agents to help "moderate" this process and so most products with "real" DIM have a "blend' that doesn't have real non crystalline DIM in proper dosages. So the blend my be 100mg but the DIM itself is more like 5 or 10. Normal people get a little result from that but things like Gyno, or anxiety while taking androgel wont be resolved.

So sincerely, theres a reason we produce our own. For your situation if you are going on full on HRT then I strongly recommend estroblock pro.

Lastly, Trace Minerals are imperative because while modern food nutrient levels are a 10th of what they used to be 80 years ago in the USA, our receptor and transmitter sites all use these minerals and if you take 3 of these tablets before sleeping you'll get A LOT more out of your HRT as well as have a more balanced and pleasant experience.

If you wish, I will go over your hormone panels with you in private and help you set dosages ( jordan@growyoungandslim.com ) also if you call to get the cream mention NATMEDTALK forum and say Jordan said you could have 15% off.

It may seem like a lot of stuff but its about half the price of androgel alone and more effective.
 

brg1986

New member
Joined
May 23, 2013
All right buddy, here is a complete breakdown because both your issues are common with androgel and your concern about testicular shrinkage is a good one.

I will include a short recommendation here, followed by a long explanation.

Testro Vida Cream ( not available online so please call 866 319 0566 and ask for Rachel its a specialty item)
Testro Vida Capsules
Estro Block PRO
Adrenal DMG or Isocort (your preference)
Trace Minerals we have no affiliation with them but they make the best mineral supplement we've tested and we tip our hats to them for it.

Here is why these are recommended:

First about your anxiety issues - Anxiety isnt actually often caused by estrogen metabolism. While estrogens can make you emotional or moody, anxiety is caused when cortisol and testosterone gets out of balanced and adrenaline starts doing the job cortsiol is supposed to do (more on that here About Cortisol) This is why I recommended Adrenal DMG or Isocort (isocort has a lactose binder in it which causes some allergen issues in some folks, but its fine for most)

Second, Testro Vida Cream is not available online because its not safe for women usually. It does not use your natural production but it is a full on HRT. It uses an extract of Scottish Pine Bark that is bio identical 4-androstenedione which converts directly into testosterone. It has very little estrogen run off and the cream also contains chrysin. Chrysin works best transdermally for reducing estrogen, and I would recommend rubbing the cream for a couple of days on the gyno spot and it should go back to normal. It also contains DHEA and Pregnenolone to help with the balancing of anabolic and catabolic. Everything is in a very appropriate ratio and the amounts are specific to what is needed in Testosterone Replacement.

Third, Testro Vida is recommended so that not only is SHBG controlled but also LH is elevated along with more estrogen control, as well as natural production boosters and this combo should negate any shrinkage worries by keeping your natural levels processing.

Fourth, most DIM and I3C products dont work at all. They use a crystalline form of the extract and every major brand of it that we tested, either did not have clinical dosages or was using these crystalline extracts that dont absorb, they just dont break down and go down the pathways. The reason they do this is because its very expensive to produce.

Our products at GYS are kind of pricey ya know. It's because its the only way the doctors who designed them could get lab results. Our estroblock for example is 29 and others are 15 or so, but ours costs 18 to produce, even in huge order quantities.

What happens is, DIM and I3C both evaporate when heated above 120F or so. When using a chemical extraction, it also tends to "burn" the molecule and render it in effective. People use masking agents to help "moderate" this process and so most products with "real" DIM have a "blend' that doesn't have real non crystalline DIM in proper dosages. So the blend my be 100mg but the DIM itself is more like 5 or 10. Normal people get a little result from that but things like Gyno, or anxiety while taking androgel wont be resolved.

So sincerely, theres a reason we produce our own. For your situation if you are going on full on HRT then I strongly recommend estroblock pro.

Lastly, Trace Minerals are imperative because while modern food nutrient levels are a 10th of what they used to be 80 years ago in the USA, our receptor and transmitter sites all use these minerals and if you take 3 of these tablets before sleeping you'll get A LOT more out of your HRT as well as have a more balanced and pleasant experience.

If you wish, I will go over your hormone panels with you in private and help you set dosages ( jordan@growyoungandslim.com ) also if you call to get the cream mention NATMEDTALK forum and say Jordan said you could have 15% off.

It may seem like a lot of stuff but its about half the price of androgel alone and more effective.
Thanks for your answer. I watched Nick Delgado's videos and he mentioned he took part in a study where they tested before and after testosterone results while on a combination of these herbs. Im wondering what % increase happened on average. Can you send me that link? I just had a hormonal blood test so it would be interesting to see what changes actually happen.
 

Grow Young and Slim

New member
Joined
May 18, 2013
Location
Newport Beach, CA
There are legal reasons we cant post info from that specific study, but I can give you an idea of what to expect based upon what I've seen...

Ill break it down by Age, using all the above recommended products in their specific dosages.

Basically you would just add the following numbers to your total. So a 50 year old man (Nick is over 55) tests at 200 before product, would end at 700~ after. Also note that these numbers are CONSERVATIVE. Nick himself got over 1500 increase (over 2000 total) by taking double dosages (not recommended 800~1100 is ideal in my experience unless youre a serious athlete...Dr. Delgado was breaking world records at the time for curls and vertical lift)

Other factors include low fat, high nitrogen (mostly if not all vegetarian) diet are important for testosterone levels because they increase the efficiency of the ATP cycle making the testosterone that is produced more effective.

Age --- Increase in Total T
20-30 800~
30-40 600-800
40-50 500-600
50-60 400-500
60-70+ 300-500

You can expect that kind of elevation taking all the things recommended at their recommended (on bottle) dosages. You can elevate further by going above and beyond dose recommendation, but it's unnecessary (except for serious athletes)
 

brg1986

New member
Joined
May 23, 2013
yeah thanks.. Im seriously willing to give this a try.
 


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