Plant vs animal-based digestive enzymes

Bee123

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Sep 17, 2011
Can taking plant-based digestive enzymes lead to fungal overgrowth, since these are made with aspergillus (and perhaps other fungi/bacteria)?

Which are better: Plant-based enzymes or animal-based enzymes (like pancreatin, ox bile, etc)?
 

grandmaflorist

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Jul 10, 2011
Location
Oklahoma
Not sure about fungal

Not sure about fungal but my daughter who just came out of esophagus cancer uses the plant based. It has protease, ginger root, peppermint leaf, fennel, beet fiber and this company does not use GM crops to produce their products. It is called GI-Zyme by Mannatech. Associate price is 38.50 but you will have to go to the web site to order as people cannot tell you it helps with disease and then sell you something.
 

Arrowwind09

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Oct 16, 2007
plant based enzymes will not lead to fungal overgrowth. Nor will eating mushrooms.. lots of silly myths about fungus. I am attaching a PDF about candida. that I think is fairly accurate
 

Attachments

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
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Oct 16, 2007
the intent of the article I put an attachment for is not to distract you from MMS bee,
but is another option in your arsenal for another time if needed
 

Bee123

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Sep 17, 2011
Original Poster
Thanks! We'll see if the MMS works. So far, I've experienced nothing but some gas/bloating...but who knows if that's from the MMS or just the usual annoyances of my messed up GI system. :p

I go up to 3 drops tonight.

Have u heard of anyone NOT having any reaction to MMS (no nausea or diarrhea)?

Why does it take some people longer to react? Is that because they are more toxic, thus they need a larger amount of MMS to start killing the pathogens... or is it the other way around?

Have u tried the H202, Arrow? I haven't done much research on it, but the little bit I've read makes it sound promising.

Arrow, what was your experience with candida and your quest for health like?
 

jfh

perpetual student
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Dec 3, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Arrow, thanks for that candida report. I like dispellers of myth.

So diet does not work? Herbal 'killers' don't work? I kind of knew that in the back of my mind. Candida is part of everyone's environment as yeast. Since we can't really kill it off so easily, it is important to keep it in its yeast state. That means keep a good colony of lactic acid producing bacteria for the acid, and avoid alkaline producing protocols.

I think I will start back on h202 therapy. I started it once by taking one extra drop per day, but felt that I was getting nowhere. I think I will start again and continue to 25 3 times per day. http://educate-yourself.org/cancer/benefitsofhydrogenperozide17jul03.shtml

Bee, the detox depends upon your liver. If your liver is in good health, and you move gradually (one extra drop per day), you may not even have a reaction.
 

Arrowwind09

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Oct 16, 2007
I can tell you that my perfectly healthy 21 year old son took, what was it? 20 or 25 drops on his first dose and it affected him not.... not done under my supervision.

Not all people react... but most do especially if they up the dose too fast. When I started when mms first came out I started with 6 drops... most arrogantly :lol:
At 8 drops I was done in for a day or two. But shortly after I worked up to 15. That was the original protocol, but still you were suppose to start with one drop.

I have never been given convincing evidence one way or another just what causes the nausea reaction but from all the testimonials I have read I do assume it is a detox reaction because people get past it.

jfh, in that PDF the author mentions a way to take H202 that is easier on the gut... some formulated product but I didn't look into it. The one minute cure book talks of methods on how to do it too... but I will have to go back and look at it again.
 

Bee123

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Sep 17, 2011
Original Poster
Could you post the One Minute Cure book? That sounds a bit too good to be true, lol.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that diet doesn't contribute. I'm sure it is part of this extremely complex puzzle. However, I doubt the extreme diets are really necessary.... who knows, though.

How does H2O2 therapy compare to MMS? I've heard them sorta being thrown together in the same paragraphs sometimes....yet I know they are entirely different.

Perhaps, if MMS doesn't work, I can try this H202 stuff. Did u try it, Arrow?
 

pinballdoctor

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Oct 1, 2007
Location
Saskatchewan Canada
I am attaching a PDF about candida. that I think is fairly accurate
There is lots of good information in the article you posted.

The part near the end caught my attention. It is where they stated you need all your vitamins, amino acids, fatty acids, and minerals. This should have been placed near the front of the article since vitamin/mineral deficiency is a leading factor in developing disease, or in this case, candida.

Even if long term antibiotic use has destroyed the good intestinal bacteria, having no vitamin/mineral deciciency can still protect from yeast overgrowth because, as we are now finding out about vitamin D, genes are effectively turned on or off, creating substances that kill pathogens including fungi.

It is still my opinion that diet plays a huge role in preventing/reversing candida overgrowth, unlike the opinion of the articles' author. I also still think that natural antifungals, in combination with prescription antifungals, can assist in killing this 9 headed hydra known as candida. And it is still my opinion that you can't kill fungi while you are feeding it the very food it requires to flourish, therefore, it is still necessary to starve the fungi as part of the treatment.

As pointed out by Jim, and as previously stated by me several times, diet alone won't work against systemic candida. Fungi grow in layers, so even if you manage an effective treatment, you're only going to kill the top few layers, still leaving the colony to grow.

Nowhere in that article was there any mention of MMS, only H202, and they both work in the same manner. In fact, I think MMS would last longer in the blood, thus, would penetrate deeper.

There is one part of the article that states there is no medical test to determine if fungi is in the blood. This is true in the sense that fungi are much smaller than bacteria, and had to be looked at using an electron microscope, however, the problem is that most doctors are unaware that yeast fungi is even a health issue, so until such time that doctors are taught, the mainstream diagnosis will not change, and thus, millions of people will eventually be put on drugs and treated like mental patients..


I have been researching fungi for several years, and don't think that anyone understands exactly how they grow, undetected by the immune system to the point where they control the body. My best "guess" is that they grow as a result of a long term vitamin/mineral deficiency, and can be aided by antibiotics, fluoride, prescription drugs, and steroids such as birth control. The immune system does not "see" these organisms because they mimic normal human cells.

The best solution is to prevent fungal overgrowth with proper diet, including all the minerals/vitamins, amino acids, fatty acids, and taking a good daily probiotic. Tap water must be avoided as well antibiotic use unless absolutely necessary, and considering most of our antibiotic use comes from conventional feed lot meats, that is only possible if this type of meat is also avoided.

Add lots of sunshine, exercise, some method of dealing with day to day stress, and positive attitude. Remove any metal from your mouth, especially mercury fillings, keep your teeth and gums in optimal condition, and stay away from doctors.
 

Bee123

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Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Original Poster
Good post, Pinballdoc!

In the article, it mentions that the full spectrum vitamin supplement contain:
-12 amino acids
-3 efas
-16 vitamins
-70+ trace minerals
-phytonutrients
-antioxidants
And that this formula be in a liquid. Do u know of any brands off-hand that suffice this criteria (and that does not contain sugar or xylitol or stevia, as most do)?

Good to know that MMS is more effective. I hope that's so in my case!
 

grandmaflorist

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Location
Oklahoma
Should would like to hear some of your research links

There is lots of good information in the article you posted.

The part near the end caught my attention. It is where they stated you need all your vitamins, amino acids, fatty acids, and minerals. This should have been placed near the front of the article since vitamin/mineral deficiency is a leading factor in developing disease, or in this case, candida.

Even if long term antibiotic use has destroyed the good intestinal bacteria, having no vitamin/mineral deciciency can still protect from yeast overgrowth because, as we are now finding out about vitamin D, genes are effectively turned on or off, creating substances that kill pathogens including fungi.

It is still my opinion that diet plays a huge role in preventing/reversing candida overgrowth, unlike the opinion of the articles' author. I also still think that natural antifungals, in combination with prescription antifungals, can assist in killing this 9 headed hydra known as candida. And it is still my opinion that you can't kill fungi while you are feeding it the very food it requires to flourish, therefore, it is still necessary to starve the fungi as part of the treatment.

As pointed out by Jim, and as previously stated by me several times, diet alone won't work against systemic candida. Fungi grow in layers, so even if you manage an effective treatment, you're only going to kill the top few layers, still leaving the colony to grow.

Nowhere in that article was there any mention of MMS, only H202, and they both work in the same manner. In fact, I think MMS would last longer in the blood, thus, would penetrate deeper.

There is one part of the article that states there is no medical test to determine if fungi is in the blood. This is true in the sense that fungi are much smaller than bacteria, and had to be looked at using an electron microscope, however, the problem is that most doctors are unaware that yeast fungi is even a health issue, so until such time that doctors are taught, the mainstream diagnosis will not change, and thus, millions of people will eventually be put on drugs and treated like mental patients..


I have been researching fungi for several years, and don't think that anyone understands exactly how they grow, undetected by the immune system to the point where they control the body. My best "guess" is that they grow as a result of a long term vitamin/mineral deficiency, and can be aided by antibiotics, fluoride, prescription drugs, and steroids such as birth control. The immune system does not "see" these organisms because they mimic normal human cells.

The best solution is to prevent fungal overgrowth with proper diet, including all the minerals/vitamins, amino acids, fatty acids, and taking a good daily probiotic. Tap water must be avoided as well antibiotic use unless absolutely necessary, and considering most of our antibiotic use comes from conventional feed lot meats, that is only possible if this type of meat is also avoided.

Add lots of sunshine, exercise, some method of dealing with day to day stress, and positive attitude. Remove any metal from your mouth, especially mercury fillings, keep your teeth and gums in optimal condition, and stay away from doctors.
It was like a light bulb went on the other day. My daughter's cancer disappeared even faster than we expected. I have known many who came out of cancer - some came out and as soon as they stopped taking the products - cancer returned within a few years. My daughter was kept on a fungal antibiotic for four weeks in the hospital (doctor did not want to give to her but we insisted and he did) She developed a fungal pneumonia which according to a friend who is going to be a D.O., 100% of it's victims die from it. She called us and told us to tell the doctor to put her on the medicine because they thought she was going down hill because they could not find the right antibiotic.

Also, I have a friend that has springs on her land. When the water was tested, it was the same minerals that a doctor is using to kill fungus in the body I read about. He gives treatments outside the U.S but says it has to insert it into the body. This water has been tested and drinkable and very alkaline.

The next thing I realize is after cancer eats into organs and the body, the immune system has to be ready to regenerate body parts like on Wake Forest and that is what we saw.

Could you send the information about vitamin/mineral deficiency causing fungus?
 

grandmaflorist

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Jul 10, 2011
Location
Oklahoma
Hey pinballdoctor,
Do you know of anyone who has studied which drugs block vitamin/mineral absorbtion?
Example: Everytime I hear about someone with Neuropathy - I know they are on high blood pressure medicine. Online, the drug company says a side effect can be neuropathy. Most of the time, it has taken seven or more years.

I also wonder how one product could help with so many illnesses and come to find out fungus causes many illnesses.
 

pinballdoctor

Active member
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Location
Saskatchewan Canada
Could you send the information about vitamin/mineral deficiency causing fungus?
If you look back into history you will see that rickets was caused by vitamin D deficiency, scurvy was caused by lack of vitamin C, pellagra was caused by niacin (B3) deficiency, and baribari disease was caused by a deficiency in thiamine (B1). In fact, all non man made disease is caused by a vitamin/mineral deficiency, so that would include several cancers, bone and joint disease, copd, asthma, skin disorders, and the list goes on and on.

Instead of sending information that is open to interpretation, I would suggest you look up Dr. Joel Wallach on youtube. He has several videos there and is an expert on vitamin/mineral deficiency.

You could start by watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIuAvFett0w


Hey pinballdoctor,
Do you know of anyone who has studied which drugs block vitamin/mineral absorbtion?
Suzy Cohen, registered pharmacist has a book out called "drug muggers" that explains how a drug can rob the body of a nutrient. This can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yek1DdE0lUc&feature=related

fungus causes many illnesses.
This is something that most conventional doctors don't understand, at least not yet.

Fungus is the symptom, mineral deficiency is the cause.
 

grandmaflorist

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Location
Oklahoma
Great stuff. This answers so much. Have seen so much with adding nutrients but wondered why it did not work for everyone the same. When I first started learning about the products I am taking, a paper from MIT said this technology would change the world. It explained why some cells would absorb nutrients and some would not. They were missing certain sugars around the cells that would allow the nutrients to be absorbed. For a florist and illustrator, some of this is just beyond me.

I did notice when looking up the minerals in my friends water, some of them are used for all types of diseases, like asma, cholesterol, dementia and even cerberal palsery (in unborn babies) - anyway there was quite a few.

I have been racking my brain trying to figure out some of the areas with my daughter that are not quite there yet and this explains a great deal. She started on the water a couple of days ago now and we shall see. We found out today she has oral surgery on Thursday.

I not only would like to find out what nutrients drugs block but also it would be good to know about over the counter meds. Including aspirn whick everyone seems they can't live without. I just bet that stuff also robs the body of something.

By the way, thank you so much.
 

grandmaflorist

New member
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Jul 10, 2011
Location
Oklahoma
I wanted to add one more thing here. Do you know while looking up the water thing, most of these minerals are not available to the public. It looked like they were prescribed or just used by chemist. Some were used in industrial applications.

Years ago some of my friends said major diseases would be a thing of the past. I can now see that it is finally here.
 

Colin4May

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Jul 3, 2011
Location
Crystal Palace, London
'ROOMS!

plant based enzymes will not lead to fungal overgrowth. Nor will eating mushrooms.. lots of silly myths about fungus. I am attaching a PDF about candida. that I think is fairly accurate
Thanks for this. I love mushrooms but always had some deep seated fear that I would start spouting mycelium strands and spores!
 

Bee123

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Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Original Poster
So, in your opinion, is the "cure" simply taking a quality multivitamin, if deficiency is the cause of most disease?
 

grandmaflorist

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Location
Oklahoma
Some is true

So, in your opinion, is the "cure" simply taking a quality multivitamin, if deficiency is the cause of most disease?
From what I am finding out, a person not only needs vitamins but minerals too. Also, if one is taking vitamins which will not absorb in the body - you are wasting your time as well. We were never meant to live on rocks.

Also, if fungus really is the lack of minerals and some minerals are not easy available, this too would be a big one to consider.

AND, it would shock you to see how everyone has over the counter meds that are as harmful as the prescribed ones. Then the cleaning items and bathroom items. Those darn toxins are just everywhere. Better take something that detoxes regularly what should not be in the body.
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
So, in your opinion, is the "cure" simply taking a quality multivitamin, if deficiency is the cause of most disease?
and this is to address Grandmaflorist's questions also...

No. It is not as simple as that.
Only in some cases that are not extremely complex, and things can get very complex.

Although deficiency causes many diseases and likely is the root cause for most disease, it does not account for issues with pollution toxicity, heavy metals, stress, and diseases of contagen origin that the immune system may have no response mechanisms for. Some of these issues can cause deficiencies as they interfere with the metabolic pathways of minerals and vitamins... fluoride and bromide toxicity is a clear cut example on how they contribute iodine deficiency. Even though iodine may be there it has difficulty entering its normal pathway because the others are sitting in its receptor sites. This type of scenario is likely happening with many minerals and vitamins due to poisoning by foreign substances that our industrial society has put upon us.

Drugs do cause deficiencies. Most drugs have not been studied for what specific deficiencies that they do cause but some have. You have to go to the PDR to find out... thats the Physicians Desk Reference... and would probably be the leading source for this information.

Fungus is generally caused by the over use of antibiotics or steroids, or female hormones. I have not seen that other drugs lead to fungus but there may be some.

Fungus (as well as mold) is also something that on rarer occassions you can catch. I have been reading about a killer airborne fungus that can get in the lungs. This would cause disease when the immune sytem has no response mechanism that works fast enough. Of course this inefficiency in the immune system could be caused by a number of nutrient deficiencies, but this example is of people who have become ill who are generally, buy normal convention, considered healthy... which of course is not our standard of health around here, even if we don't individually meet it.

Treating fungus is very difficult because you have to find a way to restore balance. The fungus your daughter had in her lungs may not have had a single thing to do with candida or her gut. How to know unless a culture was done? What hospitals are not talking about, just like they did not talk about MRSA for so long, it that there are several different types of fungus popping up.. that are not candida. Most doctors do not fully recognize this yet... as you saw, you had to demand a fungal mediciation, which they did give, but did they know what kind of fungus they were treating? Did anyone do a culture? I would try to find out if I were you. It is always best to know your enemy. Only time will tell if the medicine she took fully erradicated it. Fungus can be funny that way. It has a tendency to stick around and it may have even been forced to mutate under the stress of the antifungal medication.

Antifungal as well as antibiotics medications can force fungus to mutate, and just like MRSA, a resistant bacteria, you can develop a resistant fungus. If your daughter regrows this fungus to a pathogenic level again the drug she used previously may or may not work. This time a culture and sensitivity test would be mandetory to assure it is still the right antifungal mediciation. Remember that.

Also, when an individual takes many different antibiotics over the course of months or even a lifetime they could potentially alter the fungus into different forms... so what you have are fungal breeding grounds in all these different people with the fungus being slightly different in difficult ways to see. This is called shifting state of the microbe is called polymorphism.

So you can see how fungal infections can be very difficult to cure.

Ultimately, the terrane is of consequence. You want to rebuild the body to a natual state in its internal environment as best as you can. We generally see this as being done by eating natural foods, raw foods, taking supplements in an intelligent fashion, avoiding drugs, excess sugar and alcohol.... but there are other aspects to consider also.

This is why I am a strong believer in the paleolithic diet... you can look that up.

So few people ever get to figure out the nature of the fungus that is attacking them. They can do cultures of sputum and other secretions but conventional medicine does not routinely check for blood borne fungus. They can test for it now and I do believe that the PDF file I posted is a bit dated on this aspect of the topic. The tests take a long time for results to come out.

The very best diagnosis for blood born candida or other fungus is a dark field microscope live blood analysis. Although I do not know if they can differientate between different fungus that could possibly be there I think they have the candida thing down, as it is the most common. Only naturopaths or alternative thinking MDs offer this test. It is not FDA recognized and therefore insurance will not pay, but for what you get its not that expensive.

The PDF I posted states that diet is of little consequence... and he could have made this clearer. He certainly did talk about sugar and you have to consider ALL the ways sugar can get into your body. But you also have to heal the gut lining and you have to knock out with some kind of drug either pharmaceutical or alternative, the candida that is ciruculating in the body. Since doctors do not recognize circulating candida except in extreme situations in association with autoimmune diseases like HIV they just don't recognize or test for it in most people that come into their offices with the "candida check list" of symptoms. They do know candida is a killer and they see it most often in AIDs. I have seen people die from it, as I have worked with AIDS patients. Eventually it gets into the brain and colonizes there and thats the last straw for them. They get candida dementia and are soon after, gone. Treatment with antifungals eventuallys stops working as the infection is so severe and they as well are not addressing all fronts of the disease... and of course in AIDS everything is magnified by an malfunctioning immune system in total.

Healing the gut is primary. And from time immorial naturopaths have known that a dyfunctional gut is primary to most chronic disease. See Bernard Jenson and his book " The Science of Iridology " . He didn't make this stuff up, it had been known for many years.. but he brought the concepts into fuller awareness in the USA though his own clinical experience and teaching efforts.

When drugs are taken the first assault is on the flora in the gut. The flora produces a multitude of vitamins so this is where the deficiencies often start. You have to make most of your B vitamins. You also have to make many enzymes and many are produced in the gut by these flora or are secreted into the gut from the liver and pancreas and move though the intestinal wall into circulation. When things start to go down in this part of the body it is a cascading effect throughout in subtle ways. Over time real chronic disease can set in. Unfortunatley we don't understand all the pathways yet.

So the program is three fold and there are a number of ways to go about it.

1. Remove (this might be MMS, H202, Ozone, drug therapy, Rife, or a multitude of other products)

2. Reinocculate (or Restore - this is done by adding friendly bacteria and eating right)

3. Repair (or Modulate - includes methods to actually heal the lining of the gut and prevent it from degrading again.)

This artilce from my blog explains one approch using Homeopathy and nutrition
http://www.healthsalon.org/140/leaky-gut-syndrome/


and this article from my Bellaonline website exlplains an alternative
to the repair phase that many are finding effective especially if they have what is classified as an autoimmune disease or cancer
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art35143.asp

Because the fungus can mutate in a multitude of directions and have overlays of other diesease and dysfunction the cure becomes very complex for some. Many people try many things over many years and only get partial clearing of their condition. They learn how to live with their dysfunction with a variety of supplements and approaches.
 

pinballdoctor

Active member
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Location
Saskatchewan Canada
So, in your opinion, is the "cure" simply taking a quality multivitamin, if deficiency is the cause of most disease?
Deficiency is the cause of all non man made disease.

This would not include ionized radiation, such as from x-rays or mammograms, dental x-rays, excessive sun exposure, chemicals, such as pesticides, insecticides, vaccinations, prescription drugs, heavy metal poisoning including mercury and depleted uranium, and pollution of all kinds in air, food, and water.

Most multivitamins are useless because they consist of synthetic materials and cheap ingredients, fillers, sweeteners, etc, instead of being made from whole foods and minerals that the body can easily absorb.

It is up to every individual to research the products before choosing the best one, rather than just buying a cheap multi off the shelf and assume it is a good product.

Almost every company states their products are high quality..
 

Bee123

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Sep 17, 2011
Original Poster
I had MRSA in 2005 (we think I caught it at the gym) and the MDs didnt know what I had. I had to TELL THEM to culture it, for they left me in isolation for 4 days to "watch and see." That could've killed me. Unfortunately, I wish it did, for now I am living with the consequences of what 2+ months of PICC line Vancomycin does to the body (no one told me about probiotics, either....I was a teenager at the time, so I knew nothing about it).

Many people try many things over many years and only get partial clearing of their condition. They learn how to live with their dysfunction with a variety of supplements and approaches.
This is my scenario. I feel like all I've done is waste time and money on useless doctors, random tests, and now have my own pharmacy of supplements. yet, I am not any better.
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Grandmaflorist,

It is hard to say why she had a fungal infection in her lungs, but if she had surgery for cancer you can be sure she was given large doses of powerful antibiotics by IV which may have caused it. With such surgery antibiotics always come. That may be what threw her over the cliff with fungus. There is a possibility that she caught it while in the hospital from the environment also

It is clear that the products you gave her saved her life. I would just keep doing what you are doing.

I cant say about the formula. One thing with tube feedings is that sometimes it gets pumped in when there is no appetite and it just wasn't moving down right. Appetite tells you that you are ready to eat more. She may also be allergic to something in it. Obviously my guess would be that since she vomited it she was not moving it down the GI tract. The forumlas are crap but they generally dont kill people, at least right away. All those narcotics she was on slows down the GI tract considerably, even the upper GI tract, so that can be a problem with tube feeding. The nurses need to check for residual, that is forumula that has not left the stomach. If it is still there the feeding needs to be turned off. If it didn't get turned off when it needed to be she of course would vomit.

You have a right to the records. Threaten them with calling your lawyer, That generally makes them move. Not likely you will find illegal things going on but you never know. They generally do the best that they know how to do, which as we know is not always very good.
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
I had MRSA in 2005 (we think I caught it at the gym) and the MDs didnt know what I had. I had to TELL THEM to culture it, .
So did the gastroparesis and constipation start during or right after the vanco?

I assume you have been on probiotics for a while now? how long exactly?

This drug can wreak havoc with the gut as I am sure you are aware of by now and it did cause the fungal issues. It almost always does, either immediatley or delayed. The candida could be the cause of your constipaiton and gastroparesis. Lets see how your current plan works.
 


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