My prostatitis story

Kite Surfer

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Sep 11, 2011
Thank you for your reply Pegasus. I have been following your posts closely. I have read the whole thread!

The doctor yesterday told me that he sees no point doing a semen test at the end of the treatment which might force me to go to another hospital since I want to do this test at all costs. While I do agree with the treatment he gave me, I do not think I agree with his future plan on me. His point was that if there is a problem after 6 weeks of levo, the infection is coming into the prostate from somewhere else so no point to do a semen test. Anyway I will surely find another place that is willing to do the semen test for me but you know better than anyone that this is not full-proof. How many days after discontinuing treatment should I go for the first test? I think 1-2 weeks but I am not sure.

I am currently in Thailand so if problems continue I could really run any future treatment by myself since I can have access to a wide range of antibiotics in a pharmacy without the need for a doctor's prescription. I even have this crazy idea and start a 2 week treatment with avelox (quite strong from all accounts) immediately after the 6 week levo course but it is just a thought. I will probably not do it as I am looking forward to stopping antibiotics.

I also believe the key after discontinuing antibiotics is a strong immune system and a good amount of good flora in the body to keep the bad bacteria in balance.

If this does not get resolved using western medicine in a reasonable amount of time I might look into Chinese medicine and herbs. There are a few clinics suggested at the prostatitis.org site.
 

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Pegasus

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Sep 1, 2011
If you can find a Dr who will do another semen sample, then I suggest after two weeks post antibiotic. Then one month after that again. If both are negative then you had done the job. I say this because, I had tests carried out after various treatments and was on one occasion it showed clear. Two weeks later, there it was again. There are many reasons why this might have happened. Anyway, I continued on the antibiotics and now I'm 99% sure it has stayed away. It is difficult to get rid of because it cleverly adapts to the antibiotic. Did your doctor attempt to explain where he thought the infection could be comming from if not your semen?

As for Chinese medicine? Well, that's up to you, but I've done it and in my opinion it's a complete waste of time and money and potentially dangerous. It's a load of bunkem as fas as I am concerned. Don't go to Avelox unless you have some good reason, i.e infection found that it is sensitive to. It's too strong and can mess your tendons up more than other quinolones. your taking enough for now, but speak to your urologist.
 

lovelife

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Jan 24, 2011
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Lovelife - glad that your getting some improvement. Was an infection found?

When you say we have similar treatment history, do you mean the antibiotics, or the symptoms or the the failures? I note that you say your about to see the 'best Urologist' next week, is that in UK? Maybe you can PM me and we can compare notes to see if there is common ground in our problem. I'm trying to decide the next course of action - if any.
Everything really.No abx has ever given me a lot of relief, except for clarithromycin wich I took years ago it gave me 100% relief for about two weeks I think that is going to be my last thing to try again.
My gp has sent me to a private clinic and he has told me that this guy is good because he has two of his patients under him.Yes in the uk.
I read so many contridicting things on the net I am not sure wich way to turn.
People if you read my first post you can see what I have had and all have not worked.
I had a vasectomy in 2001 while I had this because my wife had a mini stroke while she was pregnant with my son and they told us she could not take the pill any more.I asked them if it would effect my prostatitis and they said no but I thing it has made things worse over the years.
Pegasus did you go to china for that medicine?
I will report back on Friday after I see this uro.
 

freak

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Aug 2, 2011
Just curious... This fungal infection WON'T budge... I'm going to go out on a limb and assume circumcision is the only solid cure? I really don't want to be doing that... I've used my medication as directed, lamisil, and nothing is happening :(
 

iwillbecured

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Apr 11, 2011
freak; Are you currently TAKING antibiotics? the fungus always went away for me once stopping them. The good bacteria and immune system should be able to take care of it quite fast once antibiotics are stopped. I'm not sure BUT you might be able to use the allicin directly against it. I know there are formulations for external use, not sure if you can mix some of the powder with something and then apply? It should work, especially when it's directly used against fungus rather than trying it in the body. I don't know how sensitive the glands would be to the allicin though...
 

Kite Surfer

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Sep 11, 2011
Did your doctor attempt to explain where he thought the infection could be coming from if not your semen?
He mentioned something that it may come from the bladder but he probably also guesses. I am still getting better day by day but we will see how this plays out. You are right that enteroccocus is easily adaptable to antibiotics but that does not mean that it cannot be beaten. Yourself has taken so many antibiotics through the years but with your latest round of levofloxacin you knocked it down nicely as you say. What is the status right now for you? Are you clean or still unsure?

Iwillbecured mentioned at some point that one of his friends killed enterococus without using quinolones and I would like to know how he did it.

I have read a few stories on the net about people killing enterococus using either Levofloxacin or Moxifloxacin (Avelox). My strain was found to be susceptible both to levo and avelox. So I might keep Avelox as a back up option later if this 6-week long course fails to knock it out. However, I am clearly feeling better and I believe this numbness and slight itch I feel is a sign of healing. This 6-week thing is unreal I need one month of detoxication, rest and heavy load of probiotics to recover from the side-effects. Sparky mentioned that he also takes probiotics along with his antibiotics but I wonder if this makes sense especially with strong drugs like quinolones. Does an input of good bacteria has any effect when you are loading your body with strong antibiotics? As soon as I stop the treatment I will start probiotics.
 

iwillbecured

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Apr 11, 2011
I need to ask him what he took. I know that he took a hell of a lot of allicin, l arginine while taking an antibiotic. The idea of taking supplments with an antibiotic is to; reverse resistance, lower the minimum inhibitory concentration and support better blood flow and tissue regeneration, among other things.
 

Pegasus

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Sep 1, 2011
Yourself has taken so many antibiotics through the years but with your latest round of levofloxacin you knocked it down nicely as you say. What is the status right now for you? Are you clean or still unsure?

Well, basically I'm not improving much to be honest, I think the enterrococcus infection has gone according to semen analysis, but can't be 100% sure it's not back, or elsewhere, as my last test was 12 months ago, it was clear then - apparently. I say apparently because I'm always a little bit sceptical about when they say it's ''normal'' and ''not to worry'' etc as some of them think it is OK to carry this infection and therefore say nothing. They may be right and we have wasted our time treating this. But my urologist in Slovakia was quite alarmed by the amount showing in my samples there. It seems even the 'experts' can't agree, so where does that leave us? So my throbbing pain continues and my general health is poor (exactly as I would expect to feel if carrying an infection). So I'm following people's experiences here to see if there is something I can learn to improve my situation.

Chinese medicine was done originally Singapore 3 years ago, then in UK (very expensive and totally ineffective) including acupuncture. Waste of time and money on both counts. I can't say that being in China would make a blind bit of difference, it's all a rip off IMHO.
 

Kite Surfer

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Sep 11, 2011
Pegasus have you tried avelox yet? I hope your body can take it. I swear I read in a few places online that after many drugs it was the only antibiotic that killed it. Others again said that levo was enough for them. Have you thought about combining Iwillbecured's protocol with avelox?

I am at the point where I feel the side effects are stronger than my prostatitis. Yesterday I was fine from all accounts but today my tendons are sore again. The strange thing is that the side-effects are also up and down same as the prostatitis although this has stabilized now.
 

iwillbecured

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Apr 11, 2011
You should probably STOP that antibiotic, unfortunately. It took my tendons 2 years to recover from 3 doses of cipro. (just over 1100mg in total)
 

lovelife

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Jan 24, 2011
Original Poster
Lovelife - glad that your getting some improvement. Was an infection found?

When you say we have similar treatment history, do you mean the antibiotics, or the symptoms or the the failures? I note that you say your about to see the 'best Urologist' next week, is that in UK? Maybe you can PM me and we can compare notes to see if there is common ground in our problem. I'm trying to decide the next course of action - if any.
Sorry Pegasus .Yes always an infection found.I think maybe once it was negative.N S U is what I have.
 

Kite Surfer

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Sep 11, 2011
You should probably STOP that antibiotic, unfortunately. It took my tendons 2 years to recover from 3 doses of cipro. (just over 1100mg in total)
Thanks for your warning. I will try to go through the 6 weeks and stop it there. I still have 10 days left. I have been already through 32 days of levo and my really bad tendon days have been not more than 3-4 spread through the 32 days. My uro told me that if it hurts but subsides it is ok. I am guessing that if you had such a severe reaction to cipro after only 3 doses you are extremely sensitive to quinolones. Especially if you take into account the fact that cipro is more famous for causing arthritis than tendonitis. Levo is more damaging to tendons than cipro.

My uro told me that a relapse of prostatitis is very much dependent on how your body will react after you stop taking the drugs. It does make sense to me as a strong immune system along with the right supplements might be able to keep the bacteria count into control. Does that mean that it is also advisable to continue the cocktail of quercetin/saw palmetto/l'arginine/acillin etc treatment for many months after discontinuing the antibiotics to decrease the chances of a relapse? My uro told me that I might have to take the saw palmetto for maybe 6 months. He has no idea that I am also taking allicin,l-arginin and soon to start quercetin (actually he did not know quercetin at all).
 

kensai

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Sep 16, 2011
Thanks for your warning. I will try to go through the 6 weeks and stop it there. I still have 10 days left. I have been already through 32 days of levo and my really bad tendon days have been not more than 3-4 spread through the 32 days. My uro told me that if it hurts but subsides it is ok. I am guessing that if you had such a severe reaction to cipro after only 3 doses you are extremely sensitive to quinolones. Especially if you take into account the fact that cipro is more famous for causing arthritis than tendonitis. Levo is more damaging to tendons than cipro.

My uro told me that a relapse of prostatitis is very much dependent on how your body will react after you stop taking the drugs. It does make sense to me as a strong immune system along with the right supplements might be able to keep the bacteria count into control. Does that mean that it is also advisable to continue the cocktail of quercetin/saw palmetto/l'arginine/acillin etc treatment for many months after discontinuing the antibiotics to decrease the chances of a relapse? My uro told me that I might have to take the saw palmetto for maybe 6 months. He has no idea that I am also taking allicin,l-arginin and soon to start quercetin (actually he did not know quercetin at all).
Are you taking cipro together with quercetin ?
 

Kite Surfer

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Sep 11, 2011
Are you taking cipro together with quercetin ?
No I am currently taking neither cipro nor quercetin. I read in at least 2 different places that quercetin does not mix very well with quinolones and it is advisable to space them out. I will order the quercetin/bromelain combo this weekend so that I am ready to go in 10 days when I stop the poison called levofloxacin. Before I started levo I did 4 days on cipro before my uro changed to levo. For those interested please find below a very interesting report on the effect of levo on prostatitis:

http://www.infectweb.com/only/artsrv2009_1.pdf

I would appreciate a comment from the experienced members on my previous question regarding treatment with supplements after discontinuing the antibiotic.
 

echosixnoble

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Apr 29, 2011
Ya my fungal infection was bad I think, it was like velvity lol, I got a few more weeks with this then I'm going to try with selsun blue, do I put it on the head of my penis as well?
Try it out on a small portion of your skin to test it out first and see that you don't have a negative reaction to it. Some people are too sensitive to it. I put it everywhere, even on the head and I have had no negative reaction to it. My friend recommended it to me, he said his doc told him to use it on his piece when he got something similar to whats going on with me. It took him a whole year, but he said he got rid of it. It has really decreased my symptoms and helped me with dealing with this. Supposably, the selenium sulfide that is in it is anti-fungal/bacterial. I also read that it may be in some cases it may act as an anti-viral, but I'm not so sure if the site source was really credible for the anti-viral effect. So it's an all in one. Hopefully it helps ya out.
 

lovelife

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Jan 24, 2011
Original Poster
Folks
I have been to see a uro today.He was a nice guy for a change listened to me and he did not promise me anything.He wants to do a sperm analisis.
He told me stop taking everything for a week before the test.I am not very happy about that.
I haver never had a sperm test for that before.I said to him what if you find an infection what can you do?He obviously could not answer that.
 

iwillbecured

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Apr 11, 2011
You should read this. They did use quercetin with a quinolone.

Serenoa repens associated with Urtica dioica (ProstaMEV) and curcumin and quercitin (FlogMEV) extracts are able to improve the efficacy of prulifloxacin in bacterial prostatitis patients: results from a prospective randomised study.

Cai T, Mazzoli S, Bechi A, Addonisio P, Mondaini N, Pagliai RC, Bartoletti R.
Source

Department of Urology, University of Florence, via dell'Antella 58, 50011 Florence, Italy. ktommy@libero.it

Abstract

We report the results of a prospective randomised study to evaluate the therapeutic effect of Serenoa repens, Urtica dioica (ProstaMEV), quercitin and curcumin (FlogMEV) extracts associated with prulifloxacin in patients affected by chronic bacterial prostatitis (CBP). From a whole population of 284 patients, 143 patients affected by CBP [National Institutes of Health (NIH) class II prostatitis] were enrolled. All patients received prulifloxacin 600 mg daily for 14 days, in accordance with antibiogram results. Patients were split into two groups: Group A received prulifloxacin associated with ProstaMEV and FlogMEV; Group B received only antibiotic therapy. Microbiological and clinical efficacies were tested by two follow-up visits at 1 month and 6 months, respectively. Quality of life (QoL) was measured using the NIH Chronic Prostatitis Symptom Index (CPSI) and International Prostatic Symptom Score (IPSS) questionnaires. Group A comprised 106 patients and Group B comprised 37 patients. One month after treatment, 89.6% of patients who had received prulifloxacin associated with ProstaMEV and FlogMEV did not report any symptoms related to CBP, whilst only 27% of patients who received antibiotic therapy alone were recurrence-free (P < 0.0001). Significant differences were found between groups in terms of symptoms and QoL (P < 0.0001 for both). Six months after treatment, no patients in Group A had recurrence of disease whilst two patients in Group B did. Questionnaire results demonstrated statistically significant differences between groups (all P < 0.001). The association of S. repens, U. dioica (ProstaMEV), quercitin and curcumin (FlogMEV) extracts is able to improve the clinical efficacy of prulifloxacin in patients affected by CBP.
 

iwillbecured

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Apr 11, 2011
Continue all supplements for at least 6 months then decide what you want to do. I know that I'll carry on taking everything for quite a while. Most of them I take for OTHER benefits anyway. :)
 

freak

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Aug 2, 2011
I haven't been on abx for 3 weeks, and it has not budged(the fungal).also having a horrible few days with emptying my bladder, I thought I could live with the feeling but I have gotten so restless and was so frustrated last night. Honestly the only thing that makes me feel better is drinking alcohol, and not emotionally, its purely physical, my pc muscles feel soo relaxed when I'm drinking and even for the next few days.
 

kensai

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Sep 16, 2011
Thank you all for your contributions. I have read the whole thread and now I know so much more !!! I would like to ask you something. I am on my second week on cipro, but I would like to start iwillbecured protocol too. I know I can not combine quercetin with cipro, what should I do then when I finish cipro ( i thking I will take it 4-6 weeks) ? So after finishing cipro, should I start taking another abx, or maybe just count on my white blood cells ? Which other abx should I ask my uro for? I should add last time I used cipro it did not remove my symptoms, but afer 2 weeks it significantly decreased pain during DRE. Now I also feel a bit better since I started taking it, but it can be due to a-blocker I am taking too ... :confused:

Regards

//edit: Also, as I am student, I simply can't afford Allicinmax, which is not sold in my country. I can buy and use solgar Allicin which is 500mg garlic powder standarized for 1500 µg of allicin. Is it anywhere close ot allimax? Does it make ANY sense it take it instead of allimax (which certainly i can't get)? Maybe it would be enough strong as my symptoms are chronic but not as strong as some mentioned here though, no severe pain, rather frequency&urgency and discomfort...

//edit 2: how do you think iwillbecured, does it make sense to do your protocol without abx, but strenghtening immune system with sport and diet instead?
 

Kite Surfer

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Sep 11, 2011
Thank you for the link Iwillbecured. I read that quinolones are not recommended in the 2 following links so I do not know what to believe now. You surely know the products Prosta-Q and Q-Urol for which I read several reports that they greatly relieved the symptoms of many people after everything else failed. It seems that people in chronic prostatitis that see no improvement with antibiotics are ideal candidates for those products. I hope I do not go down that road but it is nice to know that there are options. Prosta-Q is based on quercetin. Dr Shoskes is the guy behind those products and in the second link he is the one saying that "There is a theoretical risk that use of Prosta-Q will interfere with the action of quinolone antibiotics (eg Cipro, Floxin, Levaquin). Therefore, don't take these antibiotics with Prosta-Q."

http://www.farrlabs.com/index.php/prosta-q-25/prosta-q-b.html
http://www.prostatitis.org/quercetin.html

Another product for which I read great reports is the Cernilton which is a pollen extract. I think I will buy it also and add it to the quercetin, saw palmetto cocktail of supplements. Any people here who have any experience with these products?

Kensai you will probably need to take cipro for at least 4 weeks probably 6. Did you do a semen culture with a sensitivity test? Only a sensitivity test will show which one is the right drug for your strain of bacteria. You can ask your doctor about levofloxacin (in the West is is marketed as Levaquin, in Asia as Cravit) which belogs to the same family as cipro but stronger. It has definitely made a change for me but it could have bad side effects. 6 weeks under those things is no picnic. I also started having slight insomnia now. I think reading less internet will also probably help go through this haha I say that because they are equally as many horror stories about prostatitis as they are about the side-effects of levaquin!

I am still improving in the pelvic area and after 2 not so good days of tendonitis today I feel better. I think I will cut down my losses and buy today the last box of levo. This will bring the total number under antibiotics in 42 days (38 for levo and 4 days for cipro). That is 6 weeks. It should be enough I think although the real test will be after I stop antibiotic treatment.
 

iwillbecured

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Apr 11, 2011
I really don't know if it would work without antibiotics. Might take a couple years or something without antibiotics. If it is going to work at all.

For those that can really afford it, I highly recommend Pycnongeol. It is excellent for sexual function when combined with L arginine. Almost 100% of men with mild-moderate ED were completely cured after 2 months. It greatly enhances nitric oxide and also increases blood flow, speeds up healing. http://www.pycnogenol.com/health/health_press_releases.php

reads like a sales pitch but has a couple of the tables from the studies on there which shows how well it works.
http://www.thehealthierlife.co.uk/health-shop/prelox-for-erectile-dysfunction.html

"Improving blood flow: When volunteers chewed Pycnogenol® the microcirculation of blood at the root of their fingernails improved in 78% of the test subjects, in just 15 minutes (ref x). In addition, in a double blind, placebo controlled study, forearm blood flow increased 46% after two weeks!"

Increasing blood flow in prostatitis would definitely be a good thing. :)

I also think that MAYBE the reason why ED is common in men with prostatitis is because the blood vessels are damaged from the inflammation causing dysfunction, and also oxidative stress causing a faster than normal breakdown of nitric oxide. There is definitely a muscle component to it also. It is all very complicated and difficult to tellw which is the bigger effect, but they all have a part, I think.

How is everyone doing? It's coming to the time when there are a lot of bugs going around now. Colds, Flu, stomach bugs... just to warn you, because of the supplements you' are taking you might not show symptoms of infection with viruses, but if you are around those with it, then you notice a flare up, it could well be because you have the virus but you are not showing obvious symptoms. 1 in 4 people can have a cold virus without showing symptoms. The supplments like allicin, beta glucan, and quercetin would alter the way you react to viral infections. It's well known that sufferers of prostatitis have flare ups during or after they become sick with a viral infection. So don't panic :)
 

iwillbecured

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Apr 11, 2011
Thank you all for your contributions. I have read the whole thread and now I know so much more !!! I would like to ask you something. I am on my second week on cipro, but I would like to start iwillbecured protocol too. I know I can not combine quercetin with cipro, what should I do then when I finish cipro ( i thking I will take it 4-6 weeks) ? So after finishing cipro, should I start taking another abx, or maybe just count on my white blood cells ? Which other abx should I ask my uro for? I should add last time I used cipro it did not remove my symptoms, but afer 2 weeks it significantly decreased pain during DRE. Now I also feel a bit better since I started taking it, but it can be due to a-blocker I am taking too ... :confused:

Regards

//edit: Also, as I am student, I simply can't afford Allicinmax, which is not sold in my country. I can buy and use solgar Allicin which is 500mg garlic powder standarized for 1500 µg of allicin. Is it anywhere close ot allimax? Does it make ANY sense it take it instead of allimax (which certainly i can't get)? Maybe it would be enough strong as my symptoms are chronic but not as strong as some mentioned here though, no severe pain, rather frequency&urgency and discomfort...

//edit 2: how do you think iwillbecured, does it make sense to do your protocol without abx, but strenghtening immune system with sport and diet instead?
It really should be AllicinMax or allimax (out of the UK). The other garlic products don't contain allicin. Allicin can work in a few ways. One of them is like a quorum sensing inhibitor so the immune system can find the bacteria and kill it, the other is by killing the bacteria directly (at higher concentrations). The prostate, not much blood supply as it is, no idea how much allicin will get there! It is worth taking at least a month of allicin though. A lot of people noticed an a good initial improvement very shortly after starting. It is awfully expensive if outside of the uk! a shame :/ Make health your priority in your life though. Everything else will follow. It wouldn't hurt adding a couple garlic cloves to your diet per day (crushed). Though it wont have enough allicin, it is good for blood flow!
 

iwillbecured

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Apr 11, 2011
Don't be afraid to take some painkillers either, like paracetamol, and also take baths or use heat pads to relieve pain. Relieving the pain will help you relax and take your mind off it.
 

Kite Surfer

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Sep 11, 2011
I really don't know if it would work without antibiotics. Might take a couple years or something without antibiotics. If it is going to work at all.
Sorry I did not understand your comment above. Do you mean quercetin would not work without antibiotics?

I saw the Pycnogenol product in a GNC shop in Bangkok but you are right it was one of the most expensive supplements. $110 for a small bottle :shock: I might try it later but does it have to be along with an antibiotic? If yes then it is too late for me.

It is funny you say that it is flu season because I am just coming out of one that started on Friday. I had the typical flu-like symptoms like running nose, fever etc. It is going away now. I really do not know if this is caused by flu or prostatitis related bacteria. One thing that it is strange is that you mentioned many times about flare ups with chills and fever during prostatitis. In my 2 months with the infection I did not even have one of those. I am wondering if this could possibly mean that the bacteria did not have enough time to build heavily colonized biofilms so I never was exposed to destruction of big biofilms that cause those flare-ups.

It really should be AllicinMax or allimax (out of the UK). The other garlic products don't contain allicin. Allicin can work in a few ways. One of them is like a quorum sensing inhibitor so the immune system can find the bacteria and kill it, the other is by killing the bacteria directly (at higher concentrations). The prostate, not much blood supply as it is, no idea how much allicin will get there! It is worth taking at least a month of allicin though. A lot of people noticed an a good initial improvement very shortly after starting. It is awfully expensive if outside of the uk! a shame :/ Make health your priority in your life though. Everything else will follow. It wouldn't hurt adding a couple garlic cloves to your diet per day (crushed). Though it wont have enough allicin, it is good for blood flow!
Iwillbecured I completely agree with you that health is number one priority. If it means cutting down something else to buy the necessary supplements it needs to be done no question about it. My adventure started about 2 months ago and I have already spent an awful amount of money on doctors, tests, medicine and supplements. I do not care I want my old life back.

I also do not take the brand name AllicinMax because I never saw it in Thailand and it would not be convenient to ship from the UK. I could not believe that this is the only company that can make this product so I did some research locally. It was not easy to find something equivalent but I finally saw a locally made product in a couple of pharmacies that claims to contain 200mg of Allicin. I think AllicinMax contains 180mg. So I am confident enough that it will also work. Kensai I do not know which country you live in but try to go to a few big pharmacies and natural/health product stores and inquire about an Allicin product. They might have it. Read the label and look for the Allicin content.

Oh one question I had was regarding the allicin. Does it also kill the good bacteria? I ask because I will start probiotics soon.
 


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