Do you suffer from or know someone suffering from Multiple Sclerosis?

Mandrake

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Location
South Africa
The reason I ask is my sister in law has just been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis (MS). So I am looking to find out what multiple sclerosis therapies and treatments have multiple sclerosis sufferers had successful results with?

Please post your replies here.

I will also be posting research and information I find out about multiple sclerosis here, for those of you suffering from MS.

I would also be nice to get a group together to offer informal support for those of you suffering from multiple sclerosis.

You may want to start by checking out this thread on the forum

https://www.natmedtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4181
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Mandrake, I worked with a woman who has MS, both she and her father. She told me that she takes this herbal formula religiously and it makes a big difference for her. When I looked into some of the herbs in it it is a strong antimicrobial and she said that if she doesn't take it for a few days she really feels the difference.

Just another confirmation that MS has a microbial component to the disease process. If I had it I would be looking for a way to do either colloidal silver by IV or Ozone therapy, but only if I found that MMS did not work.

Padma Basic:
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Padma-Basic-60-Tablets-Discontinued-Item/1366?at=0

Are you familiar with Ozone? There are a couple of clinics around the world that do ozone in a very special and powerful way. They take the blood, they circulate the blood out of the body and through a machine much like a dialysis machine. It is ozonated then the trash is removed and the purified blood is returned. It is a very powerful therapy but not available in the US. I can put you in contact with someone who knows directly about it. Here is his forum and although the forum does not get many posts he has always responded to me quickly.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/oxyzone

There is every possibility that direct ozone via IV injection may work also. You should discuss this with him as you would be able to provide that to your sister in law. This would avoid a long trip and more repeated therapy if needed.

It does take some courage to get into ozone as the rhetoric about it is so strongly negative from the negative nay sayers, even amongst ozone proponents who have condemned ozone by IV. But their basis for discent is not well founded, lacking documentation and rationality. Talk to Peter Jovan at his forum. You may even be able to call him. I did a number of years ago. Address Peter directly (professor ozone) Somewhere he has a photo documentary of himself receiving the Recirculatory Haemoperfusion which is an ozone application delivered very similar to Dialysis.

...another thought. I have read a couple of testimonials that MMS has worked well with MS. It would be the logical first program to try, it seems to me. Since some ozone practitioners have found MMS to be as good as ozone you may want to look at this closely. It is cheap, easy to do and therefor requires no doctor or travel.

and then last but not least, check out low dose naltrexone
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Here we go. Further info on Peter Jovan:

Peter (Professor Ozone) Jovanovic

http://www.ozoneuniversity.com/

http://www.ozonehospital.com/

http://www.oxygentherapyexperts.com/

http://www.medicalozone.info/

http://www.bloodozonation.com/

http://www.youtube.com/user/ozoneresearch

Phone - +1-604-501-6051

Fax - +1-440-550-5610

Ozone Research Group

Founder

Skype ID - ozoneresearch

Yahoo ID - humansafe2001

Yahoo Group Owner - http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/oxyzone/

"The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible."
 

Mandrake

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Location
South Africa
Original Poster
Thanks arrow wind for the information. You certainly have given us all a lot to look at.

I am familiar with ozone therapy, a few practitioners do it here in South Africa.

I am curious about the I.V. colloidal silver I shall look into that one. ;)
 

tnkrbell

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Location
Edmonton Alberta Canada
MS Theories

Hi There All,
I was dxd with MS 5 1/2 yrs ago after an attack. I had ataxia, double vision, memory loss, confusion, brain fog, extreme fatigue etc. I didn’t receive treatment for MS due to govt criteria in my province...must have 2 distinct attacks. Anyway, since that day I have become proactive in my search for answers. Since I am unable to work I have plenty of time to study and learn. Just so you know I am not a dummy I do have a university degree.. a BSc in Material Engineering....lots of chemistry involved….scanning electron microscopy, transmission electron microscopy etc.

Much of the current Lyme/MS research has been disregarded by the medical community in America. This is partly due to greed on the part of MS pharma pushers along with the misinformation given to the public by the IDSA stemming from unethical dealings by several members of the IDSA's Lyme panel. Apparently some of these members were financially involved with insurance companies, drug manufacturers and even Lyme vaccine makers. The IDSA denied the existence of chronic lyme disease, said that testing was adequate and said lyme could easily be treated with 6 wks antibiotics…not!!! They even published their own biased research papers and ignoring reliable research from other prominent Drs. Check the IDSA Guidelines paying special attention to the authors in the reference section. Even though there are tens of thousands of studies on lyme in circulation, the “IDSA Lyme Guidelines” sited research by Lyme panel members and chose only a few research documents from others…that just happened to fit with their agenda lol.
The members of this panel have been asked to step down and supposedly, a new unbiased panel is being selected. It is hard to find any significant studies from US researchers…only those that are authored by the jaded IDSA panel members lol. Much of the reliable research comes from other countries.
http://www.ct.gov/ag/cwp/view.asp?A=2341&Q=414290

Okay, now onto the good part, the lyme/MS proof...

I have discovered that there’s a lot of evidence that points to Lyme disease as the cause of MS. To start with all of the symptoms of Lyme disease can be the same as MS..from the vitamin deficiencies and physical symptoms to the lesions in the brain.

MS has been linked to spirochetel bacteria since the early 1900’s. The link below has a very old edition of the “Time” magazine. Check out the date the article was written.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,825059,00.html

This link below is really good. It goes into the history of the spirochete in regard to studies of MS patients.
http://www.lymeneteurope.org/info/the-difficulty-of-culturing-spirochetes

This web page is just a big list of MS/Lyme research links. It is loaded with links….
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/ms-links.html
Below is the link to the most compelling evidence of the Lyme/MS connection. It is a must-see video of a lecture done by Nobel Prize nominee “Lida Mattman”. She is my absolute hero. I cried when I heard she had passed away. She was a real pioneer in the Lyme/MS quest. This video is kind of long but is well worth watching. The MS/Lyme bit starts about 2/3 into the video but the beginning part is important in the overall understanding of these bacteria. LIda Mattman actually viewed spirochetes in every single MS patient sample she was using…after most had negative lyme disease test results!!! (there were no bacteria in the healthy control samples). She actually shows magnified images of these bacteria in the video.
http://www.tickedoffandfedup.com/Lida_Video.html

Incidentally, all of the research that rejects the notion of Lyme bacteria as the cause of MS uses ELISA, western blot or PCR to ascertain the non-existence of these bacteria. Research has shown that these tests are utterly inaccurate. On the other hand, the research that proves the existence of these bacteria is done via microscopic examination of samples.

There have been several other studies done where all of the MS samples were found to be loaded with the Bb (lyme disease) bacteria. Here’s another one:
http://home.pon.net/caat/lyme/treatment1.htm#Brorsons

Since this is a natural med forum my post would not be complete without a link to an herbal treatment regime for lyme. Buhner is an excellent herbalist with vast knowledge of lyme disease and co-infections. Make sure you research the co-infections of lyme and treat for them as well or you won’t see improvements.
http://planetthrive.com/cgi-bin/members/pub9990223062281.cgi?categoryid=0&action=viewad&itemid=9990314509058

There is just too much research to include it all here. If anyone wants to see any more of it just email me…I’d be happy to oblige. After all, we are all in this together…just looking for answers.
 

Mandrake

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Location
South Africa
Original Poster
Hi Tnkrbell

Thank you for your information, you certainly have given others something to consider. I am not entirely convinced of this connection between MS and Lyme disease; let me explain why.

Lyme disease does not occur in certain countries, include my own, South Africa. Yet these countries still have cases of MS. The theory does not explain this phenomenon.

However, interestingly there are epidemiology studies that show that MS occurs at certain altitudes and latitudes, which has not been explain yet, so this could be in accordance with a bacterial theory. I definately think that this is a controversial topic which needs to be explored further.

I would love other peoples thoughts on the matter.
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Very interesting post and I will take time to go through the info tomorrow. Just a quick question, when diagnosis is made via microscope, what body fluid samples are they looking at?
 

Mandrake

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Location
South Africa
Original Poster
Arrowwind09

What are your thoughts on the theory that MS is an autoimmune condition? I tend to agree with this theory based on my own personal experience with the condition.

What do the other members think?
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
I really don't know. I do think that there is a microbial factor in it due to seeing what cures or helps. Those things antimicrobial can be very effective and there are lots of stories out there on such treatments. I have heard good reports from the use of

MMS
Colloidal Silver
Herbal Preparations.

Now MMS is also known to be very helpful for lyme also and I have a friend with lyme for about 30 years now who swears by MMS. He does some other IV treatments periodically, not antibiotic, but I have yet to find out what they are.

One cannot rule out the possibility of an auto immune glitch as a causative factor
that allows for the residence of pathogens in places that they should not be.

But then you must dig a little deeper as to the cause of the auto immune glitch. Could it be heavy metals? some other toxin? a genetic glitch? I do often see MS running in families...so I wonder about a gentic factor, or possibly a contagion? I have seen this numerous times, several people in one family with MS.

But now I hear rumor that lots of people are thinking that Lyme is contagious also.

I don't really know what is going on. There are those who say that Morgellon's people also have lyme. It gets confusing.

I am anxious to know how the microscope sees it. Is it Dark Field Microscopy? are they looking at blood, spinal fluid. Just what? Too tired to look at all that stuff tonight. I should be in bed. :bed:
 

tnkrbell

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Location
Edmonton Alberta Canada
Hi Mandrake,

Lyme disease is in fact a worldwide problem. Many unknowing Drs around the world tell their patients “there is no Lyme disease here”. I took a look through Pubmed and found an abstract that is basically typical for most countries that are just now realizing the extent of Bb’s reach. I have included it in my post:

Lyme disease--a new disease in southern Africa?
Fivaz BH, Petney TN.
Department of Zoology and Entomology, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, Republic of South Africa.
Lyme disease is a recently-described zoonotic disease occurring widely in the U.S.A., Europe and Asia. The causative organism, Borrelia burgdorferi, is transmitted predominantly by ticks of the genus Ixodes and infects a wide host range. The infection in humans causes the human disease syndrome erythema chronicum migrans resulting in arthritis, neurological symptoms and/or cardiac abnormalities. Similar clinical signs have been described in domestic animals. The status of Lyme disease in southern Africa is presently unknown but preliminary evidence indicates that the disease may occur in humans in the Republic of South Africa. The abundance of hosts and tick vectors would favour the establishment of the infection in Africa.
PMID: 2699499 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

Since Lyme disease is so new to us it hasn’t been studied in many countries yet but as more studies are being undertaken more information is surfacing.

If you don’t look for it you will never find it but that doesn't mean it wasn't there all the time.
 

Mandrake

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Location
South Africa
Original Poster
Thanks for that useful info tnkrbell. I have never seen a case of lyme disease but I am well familiar with it as I know an American citizen now resideing in South Africa who has had lyme disease in the past and has told me about it.
Rather a nasty conition.

I will do some further research into the theory. :)
 

tnkrbell

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Location
Edmonton Alberta Canada
HI Again,
After reading Arrowwind09’s post I felt obliged to post again. It is true…it’s all so complicated.
Luckily I am just a treasure-trove of information when it comes to Lyme disease lol. Ask me anything…
And if you want the actual research docs that I am getting this info from just email me and I’ll send that to you too.

The Bb (lyme disease bacteria, also called borrelia burgdorfori) can change form to evade harsh conditions such as antibiotic treatment and immune system detection (called pleomorphism). It can change from a spirochete to a cyst when conditions are harsh and then back to a spirochete when conditions are favorable (doesn’t that sound kinda like MS?) In the case of MS, when blood and tissues were examined with dark field microscopy at magnification of 1000xs (using acridine orange stain), the cystic forms were visible.

When the Bb changes its form, the OSPs (outer surface proteins) change as well. A positive result on the western blot or elisa occurs when antibodies to spirochetel OSPs are detected (in the case of western blot other proteins are detected as well but most markers are for the OSPs). It has been postulated that this is the reason for the large numbers of false negatives in western blot and ELISA tests. What this means for MS sufferers is that if they were to be tested for lyme disease chances are that they would have a false negative result even when the Bb bacteria could be seen doing the back-stroke through their blood.

This situation illustrates the need to check any research that you come upon with regard to lyme disease. If the research uses either of those two test methods (western blot or ELISA) to prove any of their theories, be suspicious, the research may not be very reliable. On the other hand if researchers actually see the bacteria in the sample (and contamination has not occurred) then there is really no disputing the fact that they are there.

By the way does anyone on this forum happen to have access to a dark field microscope? I am currently doing a bit of amateur research and would like to talk to people that can access to this type of microscope.

Mandrake, I am sure I have another article that said there were something like 4,500 cases in South Africa. I will look for it in my files.

Here are a few more lyme/MS similarities:
Same vitamin deficiencie
Same symptoms including brain lesions
HLAs, MMPs, ILs same ones affected in both diseases
Lyme and MS both affect more women than men
Both have relapsing/remitting stages
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Hi Mandrake,

Lyme disease is in fact a worldwide problem. Many unknowing Drs around the world tell their patients “there is no Lyme disease here”. I took a look through Pubmed and found an abstract that is basically typical for most countries that are just now realizing the extent of Bb’s reach. I have included it in my post:



When I got bit by a tick last summer and got quite ill I ended up at an infectious disease specialist....and he said to me that "there is no Lyme disease here"

I was astounded! having already knew of a doctor not 50 miles away that specializes in lyme patients. He also declared to me that there had been only a few lyme reports in Idaho over the years, while in Idaho, my neighbors told me of many cases.

My neighbor in Idaho has had lyme for many years., if I recall right, at least 20. He is doing quite well now thanks to a naturopath that he sees. One part of his treatment is MMS and he feels that it makes a big difference. I hope to see him again this summer to inquire further on the rest of the treatments he receives. Since I just recently met him I didn't feel I could be too pushy but I feel he will share his story as time goes by we just didn't have enough time to get to it all. This man has been nearly dead from it several times over his long history. Since I have met him he is well enough to tend to his small farm.

I did finally get to reading all the links tnkrbell offered and found it quite interesting.

I am wondering if diagnosis though dark field microscopy had been attempted.
 

Mandrake

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Location
South Africa
Original Poster
Arrowwind09

Can you tell me more about MMS, I assume it is a supplement, I have seen you guys mention it a few times. What is it, and where can I get it. It does not seem to be available in South Africa that I am aware of.

Thanks
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Mandrake, I just cut and pasted this off of Jim Humbles site. Please excuse him. His spelling and grammar are not great. I have communicated with him numerous times and always there were errors. None the less, it does not impact on the truth of what he is trying to tell the world.

6. A case of Muscular Sclerosis.

This email was received last year. This same lady, Marline, has reported being much more recovered since this report was sent as she has been on the MMS for over 6 months now. She told me that she considers herself well at this time. She writes the following:

"I have Multiple Sclerosis and believe the cause to be many pathogens. I have been lab tested and found to have Lyme's, Chlamydia Pneumonia, Epstein Barr, Myco plasma, Candida yeast, Blackberry mold plus many others.

I also have been chelated for heavy metals Mercury, lead, arsenic, cadmium and etc. I have responded to many treatments and have made progress to health. I have taken the MMS formula for over a month. I started out slowly because of the extent of my illness. I gradually increased my doses from 1 drop 1 times a day to now taking 5 drops 5 times a day.

I stayed at the lower doses for safety and to allow any plaques to dissipate and heal the tissues under the destroyed growth. I had a little nausea, passed foamy bowel waters (which I think was dead yeast). I am noticing many improvements including less edema in hands, feet, legs, arms, face, stomach and my lymph glands under arms are losing their swelling. My breathing is more productive. I am not having pains from being out of breath.

The age spots on the back of my hands are fading. My cuticles are losing the hardened ridge around the nails. My nails are losing the longitudinal and horizontal ridges and lumps. My skin and nails are glossy rather than dull.

I spoke to Jim and he recommended I could remain at current dose for two weeks then go on maintenance of 6 drops a day. I think I will try this but depending on continual recovery I may stay at the 5 drops X 5 times a day as long as I notice improvements. I believe MS to be a difficult disease and it may take longer to address with this treatment. Also I have lost 8 lbs and 6 inches from my waist and I am not dieting.

I am a monitor on the Goodshape Histamine, LDN and alternative message board. This is an active and supportive message board. Many with MS but we address all immune disorders, Lupus, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, Parkinson's, and ALS. I hope you will all visit us at. http://disc.server.com/Indices/148285.html#52711
 

tnkrbell

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Location
Edmonton Alberta Canada
I just found an interesting website from a guy that has posted some videos he took of the Bb in his system. He uses simple dark field microscopy...actually he uses a regular microscope and shows how to make adjustments to turn it into a dark field microscope. On the top left of his web page there are links to 3 videos of the Bb swimming around in his blood.
http://www.lyme-diagnosis.org.uk/

They also may be visible in urine samples. A friend and I have been experimenting with this option. We will be looking at samples from people with MS and with dxd lyme as well as controls. I will post our results in regard to this once we have some data.
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
So tnkrbell,

In regards to treating lyme, are you familiar with anyone using MMS for it?


Yes, I saw that site yesterday! I love dark field. It fully exposes the lies in the American Medical system and thats why they are illegal in the US! You cannot go anywhere to get a legal dark field study done, although there are docs that do it anyway.
 

Mandrake

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Location
South Africa
Original Poster
Really is dark field illegal in the US? Why?

We have practitioners here who use it, I have studied some basics, and I'm considering buying my own and getting more in depth training, cost is the only thing holding me back at the moment as I do not want to go into debt for a microscope.

When I used it as a basic tool in a health shop I worked in a few years ago, I got amazing results from recommending nutraceuticals based on what I saw through the microscope.

It is an amazing tool.
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
It is not an FDA approved device so no licensed person can use it and it would therefor be illegal to make recommendations from its use. I think some practitioners can legally get past it with contracts with clients or joining clubs, etc. If you have certification to do lab work you could loose it.
 

Mandrake

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Location
South Africa
Original Poster
Wow ok, that is quite interesting. I know there is a lot of research being conducted in Switzerland I think for the use of dark field microscopy as a diagnostic tool. A lot of our practitioners here have been there to study their courses and then come back here to use it as a tool.

Strange that they won't pass the darkfiled microscope, yet the FDA will approve a device like the EIS.
 

jfh

perpetual student
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
We, the USA, are at the era where we are willing to travel abroad for surgical and other health procedures. Not only is it much cheaper; but other countries are more liberal in allowing a wide variety of health protocols. It will even take some time for America to catch up with the rest of the world in stem cell research. Bioengineering is very popular in universities now. That means that there should be a large number of young scientists to move things forward quickly.

We have a more liberal President. That will help this evolution in the USA health industry.
 

Arrowwind09

Standing at the Portal
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
I am not familiar with EIS. But I can tell you that dark field microscopy would create a scary paradigm shift for the AMA who have so much invested in lies about the cause of cancer and autoimmune disorders, not to mention diet beliefs, and a multitude of drug therapies. It has the potential to change absolutely everything and change is not what the AMA is about, its all about the money. If you can do it I think there is not much better you can do for you patients in diagnostics and in monitoring improvement on a cellular level.

I just took a brief look at EIS at Altered States. Interesting. Somewhat similar to the phazyx system that is no longer available. I think the phazyx is more "hocuc pocus" looking but essentially the same in function and could tell you more than this machine but perhaps not in the same kind of detail and of course the phazyx was not FDA approved.
 

Jacosta

New member
Joined
Nov 13, 2010
Location
Johannesburg, South Africa
Hi Tnkrbell

Thank you for your information, you certainly have given others something to consider. I am not entirely convinced of this connection between MS and Lyme disease; let me explain why.

Lyme disease does not occur in certain countries, include my own, South Africa. Yet these countries still have cases of MS. The theory does not explain this phenomenon.

However, interestingly there are epidemiology studies that show that MS occurs at certain altitudes and latitudes, which has not been explain yet, so this could be in accordance with a bacterial theory. I definately think that this is a controversial topic which needs to be explored further.

I would love other peoples thoughts on the matter.
Hi Mandrake, Sorry but you are very wrong about Lyme not being in South Africa. I have had it for at least 16 years if not 25+. I even told my GP in 1996 I was 100% sure I had Lyme disease and he sai IMPOSSIBLE you only get it in the USA... Rubbish !!!

I was incorrectly diagnosed with MS in 2000. I have seen 20+ specialists in all these years and the only person to get it right was a Lyme doctor in Johannesburg in February 201. I have Chronic Lyme Disease, Rickettsia, Q Fever and the co-infections. I had intensive blood tests which confirmed my infections and I got them living in country south of Johannesburg. Please know that Lyme disease is know as the great imitator and many many people are mis-diagnosed when it is actually Lyme Disease being the root problem. Believe, Lyme is alive and KICKING in SA. I would really like to get in touch with you in this regard. I have a blog full of info re Lyme. It is a killer, has attacked my brain and it has stolen my life !
 


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