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Old 04-27-2008, 12:22 PM
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Default Vitamin D - A Fatal Underdose?

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Since vitamin D has been the topic of a fair amount of media coverage, I've received many questions about this fascinating "nutrient." A day doesn't go by without several nurses, friends, even fellow physicians stopping me to ask about vitamin D.

When I inform them that the average dose for females in this region (upper Midwest) is 4000-5000 units per day, 5000-6000 units per day for males, they are all surprised. "Then why did they say just take your multivitamin every day, or just drink your milk on the news?"

Many people are even more surprised, sometimes completely turned off, when they hear that, to be truly confident of adequate vitamin D dosing, a blood level of 25(OH) vitamin D3 needs to be checked. Now we're talking real hassle!

But there is no other way to do it. In order to obtain the full potential benefits of vitamin D, such as reduction in blood sugar and sensitization to insulin, reduction in cancer risk (especially prostate, colon, and breast), reductions in blood pressure, increased bone density, not to mention markedly increasing the likelihood of stopping or reducing your heart scan score, then achieving a desirable blood level of 25(OH) vitamin D is necessary.

Checking a blood level of vitamin D is no more difficult than having a cholesterol test, unless, of course, your doctor balks at the idea. (Time for a new doctor if that occurs.)

All too often, someone will be convinced they are taking a sufficient dose of vitamin D of, say 2000 units per day, only to discover that their blood level of 25(OH) vitamin D is something like 17 ng/ml--severe deficiency, sufficient to leave them exposed to all the undesirable consequences of vitamin D deficiency. Even though 2000 units per day represents 500% of the Institute of Medicine's recommended Adequate Intake for adults, to those familiar with the Track Your Plaque program it likely sounds like a child's dose.

Many variables enter into the equation in your body that determines your need for vitamin D: body size (heavier or larger people need more, with obese people often requiring enormous doses); sex (men need more than women); age (aging results in dramatic loss of ability to activate vitamin D in the skin); race; skin color (darker skinned people require more). Trying to guess your need is a fool's game. It's also a game that can seriously compromise your health and your hopes of ever stopping or reducing your heart scan score.



The message is clear: You cannot guess what your vitamin D need is. You cannot properly judge your vitamin D requirement by your age, body size, sex, or any other characteristic. Having a tan or a lack of a tan is a lousy indicator, as well. A simple blood level of 25(OH) vitamin D is an absolute necessity to gauge your vitamin D status, both before starting and while on your supplement.
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/20...underdose.html

note: The Life Extension Foundation offers a vitamin D test for $25. If your doctor won't order one for you, you may want to consider getting one on your own.

http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/itemLC081950A.html
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:17 PM
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In my perpetual belief that less is better I have been having a pretty bad time getting my vitamin D levels up. Finally I have screamed UNCLE and I am taking 5, 400 iu pills a day. My doctor insists that it come from a fish oil source so I have so far found only one company, Country Life, that makes it. Anyone know any other? The Country Life product also has vitamin A which of course probably can't be avoided considering the source. In 5 pills that brings me up to 50,000 iu of A which I rather not, and 2,000 iu vitamin D.

I did buy those hight powered pills that Iggy lead me to, 5,000 iu and 50,000 iu but my doc insists on fish oil origin so will save them for illness.

It takes supplementation quite a while to actually change your lab reading and my doc says she will only do it about every 4 to 6 months.

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...ndmiracle.html
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Last edited by Arrowwind09; 04-27-2008 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:33 PM
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Arrowwind,

Here's another CL product that, in five softgels, would provide 2,000 IUs of D and 3,000 IUs of A.

http://www.vitacost.com/Country-Life-Vitamin-D

Here's a product by Carlson's that contains 2,000 IUs of D (from cod liver oil). But, it doesn't state how much A it contains.

http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-Sola...ngredientFacts

note: Look at the image of the bottle. It states that this product contains 2,000 IUs of D. But, the "nutritional facts" states (in error) it has a 4,000 IUs.

Finally, here's one from Nature's Plus. 5 softgels would provide 2,000 IUs of D and 4,000 IUs of A.

http://www.vitacost.com/Natures-Plus...U-180-Softgels

I hope this helps.
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Old 04-27-2008, 05:59 PM
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Arrow,

This is Jarrow soft gels with fish oil and no vitamin A. It's what my doctor recommended till he increased my dose to 5000 IU 2 x a day. Then I went to a powdered form from LEF, which is a synthetic, but used by the body just as well. I'll have new results from blood tests in a day or two so I can see how I did.

http://www.vitacost.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Vitamin-D3

nightowl

I'm editing this to say that since my test a few months ago, I started taking a mineral tablet with vit. D3 because calcium and magnesium are important for absorbtion.

Last edited by nightowl; 04-27-2008 at 06:10 PM. Reason: Forgot to mention minerals.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:34 AM
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As of 4/18/2008 my Vitamin D was 46.8 ng/mL. Four months earlier it was 28.2 ng/mL so it almost doubled at 5,000 IU 2 X a day. It got me out of the red zone, even though I forgot to take it the second dose a lot of the time, but I'm still going to maintain that doseage for a while. The normal range at LabCorp is 32 - 100 ng/mL. I haven't been taking Vitamin A, but need to start. I'm still taking the LEF D3 powder in 5000 IU capsules.

nightowl
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:29 PM
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In this clinical nutrition course I'm taking we finally got around to vitamin D3.

The instructor says that in the old days doctors would prescribe 50,000 IU 3 times a day. They felt it worked for a lot of things that required boosted immunity including lupus, arthritis, fish skin and psoriasis. Finally, the instructor said, the FDA got wind of this inexpensive product not pharmaceutically controlled doing such good things then the anti D3 propaganda started to flow. Now fish oil became dangerous to take in the summer and dose reductions were advised to 400 IU daily, enough to keep you alive but barely, and for some people, not alive at all.

So I got this bottle of D3 50,000 IU. I think I will try it for 3 months.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:50 PM
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That's interesting Arrowwind, and is another good example of how long the FDA and pharmiceutical companies have been cheating us out of our wellness. It sounds as though Vitamin D3 was used for autoimmune diseases in general. My sister had internal type lupus really bad for years and the prednisone she took did so much damage. I saw a doctor about my psoriasis today and he prescribed hydrocortisone cream, of course. All five of my sisters and brothers, and I, have hypothyroidism that is an autoimmune type. I might get the higher 50,000 IU D3 and just take it once or twice a week. I finally remembered to pick up some Vitamin A today too.

Let us know how you do on the higher dose....whether you notice anything different.

nightowl
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:34 AM
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NightOwl,

have you tried topical lugol's for the p?
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:22 PM
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I put Lugols on a few times at bedtime, mixed with other creams, the creams were mainly for the extreme dryness that causes my skin to crack and itch, and to make it easier to distribute the Lugols more evenly. Both hands to above the wrist have been inflamed and the cracks are painful like paper cuts. With such a large area to cover I was afraid to use the large amount of Lugols required to cover all of it at once. The skin can absorb it and I also am on medication for thyroid so didn't want to get my T3 and T4 all out of balance. I have been taking Iodoral orally once or twice a week and my doctor just told me to cut a tablet in half and take one half twice a week. My need for T3 is going down, from 60 to 50 mcg, but the T4 has gone up to 350 mcg. I don't know if that has to do with the Iodoral or Lugols I've used or not. Maybe with more iodine treatment both of them will improve, but I'm afraid to over-do it. Do you think the Lugols is absorbed once the body has what it needs? I also use iodized salt, but I'm inclined to think it may be the reason my whole family has thyroid disorder. My mother cooked with lots of iodized salt.

nightowl
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:09 PM
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nightowl,

I found this article while doing some research tonight. The topic of the piece is psychodermatology. A few mind-body practices are mentioned as potential adjuncts to other treatments for psoriasis.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17009655/
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:36 AM
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Harry,

Thank you. I may have a few issues that relate to something like that, since I was forced to adjust to a whole new life a little over two years ago when Bob passed away, but my basic needs are met and I have a loving daughter and son-in-law who try to make me happy. Life is pretty boring except for sitting in front of this computer communicating with helpful people like you. Thanks for being there.

Back to Vitamin D, here is a link to a news article I just found concerning Vitamin D and breast cancer. Arrowwind, you might be wise to take the higher doses, at least occasionally.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24654464

nightowl
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:31 AM
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I am wondering what the optimum level of vitamin D would be. The LabCorp range is 32-100, but I am wondering if a person wouldn't be better off to be near the top of that range.

Mari
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:37 AM
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Mari,

I can't say for sure because I have no medical background, but I just listened to an audio seminar with a specialist on bio-identical hormones and she said it should be around 50 or 52. Mine is 46.8 now but I'm still taking 5,000 to 10,000 IU per day.

nightowl
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Old 05-16-2008, 10:30 PM
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This column is taken from Dr. William Davis' blog. He's a major advocate for vitamin D supplementation (based on proper testing).

Quote:
A tan does not equal vitamin D

The sun is getting stronger and the days are getting longer, even here in Wisconsin.

Some people are coming to the office with nice tans obtained by sunning themselves for several hours. Others have come back from winter getaways to Florida, Arizona, or the tropics, also sporting nice, dark tans.

Several people, in fact, were so confident that sunning themselves provided sufficient vitamin D that they reduced their usual dose. Some even stopped their vitamin D altogether.

But, when blood levels of 25(OH) vitamin D were checked, they were virtually all low, sometimes as low as <20 ng/ml. Yet all had nice tans.

Why does this happen? Why would people with dark tans remain deficient in vitamin D?

One big factor is age: Anyone over 40 years old is fooling themselves if they think that a tan ensures raising vitamin D levels to a desirable range. Also, the more you tan, the more melanin skin pigment accumulates, and the more vitamin D activation in the skin is blocked.

Weight is another factor: Heavier people need more vitamin D, sometimes three- or four-fold more than slender people.

Why does aging result in inefficient skin activation of vitamin D? It seems that, once we are beyond our reproductively useful years, this ticking clock of aging gets triggered. The older we get, the less activation of vitamin D occurs in our skin, the less of the youth-maintaining, disease-preventing benefits of vitamin D we obtain with sun exposure.

The message: Don't rely on a tan to gauge the adequacy of vitamin D. Maybe that works when you're 16 years old, but not at age 50 or 60. There's only one way to know your vitamin D status: a blood level of 25(OH) vitamin D.
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/20...vitamin-d.html

Last edited by Harry Hirsute; 05-16-2008 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 05-18-2008, 06:03 PM
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Vitamin D3 Notes from the BHRT Conference

Ellie Campbell D.O. Family Doctor and Bio - Identical Hormone Expert


Methods of Application of Vit D3
1. Orally
2. Topical D3 replacement therapy lotion
3. Injection

Vitmain D injection
One time a year
Custom compounded
400,000 to 600,000 IU

Most people will be restored with one injection but there are a few who require a second injection and those people may need 5,000 IU daily to maintain a level 50 over the year.
Dr Campbell recommends the injection to almost all her patients.

In the USA there is no RDA for Vit D

1000 IU is inadequate to restore or to maintain a level 50
2,000 is required to sustain a D level of 50.

deficiency requires 5 to 10,000 IU per day.
Recheck D3 after 5 to 6 weeks
400 IU is 1/10 of what is needed

In India each nursing home patient gets a 600,000 IU injection per year routinely!


D levels of 46 to 50 is of best advantage for preventing cancer

Signs of Deficiency over a long period of time:

Proximal muscle weakness
(They can not get out of a chair unless they push themselves and this is caused by deficiency on vit D)
Osteoporosis
Bone pain
Depression
Brain fog
Insomnia
weak fingernails
weak pelvic muscles

The Right Test Ė use bioidentical vit D3 as the body can process it better
25 hydroxy vit D3 level
1, 25 hydroxy vit D3 level ( donít use this test as it measures the 1 25 molecule and it has a short half life and you may think you have adequate levels but it does not last )

If Vitamin D stores are adequate the need for high dosages of calcium are not needed. High dosages of supplemental calcium can cause problems, kidney stones. Get most of your calcium from green veggies and the amount you will need to supplement will be much less.

You need the minerals calcium protein magnesium, iodine, strontium, boron, plus exercise with Vit D3 to prevent osteoporois.

She does not recommend any prescription osteoporosis medication.

Last edited by Arrowwind09; 06-01-2008 at 04:09 AM.
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