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Old 04-05-2011, 05:33 PM
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Default Could MMS also be a killer?

Hello,

I have started to read a lot about MMS as I have recently started to take it... having felt dizzy the last few hours I came back online and I actually wanted to find the details of this initial person that Jim Humble apparently cured of malaria.

I assumed that because this case is renowned, we probably have his identity logged online somewhere. However, I am unable to find this.



I have found a lot of great testimonials - and I am fascinated by them.

I have however also found the following story about how MMS killed someone within 12 hours of it being given.
Just as I would not dismiss the good testimonials, I cannot dismiss this negative testimonial either:

"mms killed my wife"
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1504247

- and although Jim Humbles reply (below) claims it is impossible, I think we should accept that nothing is actually impossible, and the symptoms are symptomatic of what can and does happen to some people. Is it not vaguely possible perhaps to be allergic to any of the contents of MMS, or for your own chemistry to react differently than it should?

His Reply: http://phaelosopher.wordpress.com/20...o-nash-attack/

Although he expresses his sympathy, before he even sees a report he is denying any possibility of this being able to happen... I find that quite worrying. Although he has a far greater understanding of MMS than any other person, he can't possibly state that death from something is impossible before an autopsy is given because that is like saying he knows everything that can possibly happen in the human body as a result of MMS being put into it -- there isn't a chemist in the world could claim this about any product. I know enough to know that reactions to 'anything' can happen - for goodness sake there are people in this world that are hurt by being exposed to the air - not many, but they exist! Therefore there are anomalies in every case.

I understand the chemistry, I have watched all the videos and I have bought MMS and started the course.

I am therefore not looking to open a hate-debate as appears to be all over the internet - I simply would like to express an open attitude to accepting that 'perhaps' an alternative or excessive chemical reaction for whatever reason) can exist and perhaps this is why MMS cannot and possibly should not be 'given' but can be 'taken'. Which in most cases of course it is.

After writing the above I then found this page that gives what I think might be the reasons for this - I have copied the part that may be useful in understanding what may have happened to Sylvie:
http://www.genesis2forum.org/index.p...=276&Itemid=66

Taken from the page discussing the autopsy and other elements of the results, the following part of the information is very interesting:

........... What almost certainly did though was a “significantly high” level (45%) of methemoglobin found in the blood.

After receiving the autopsy report from VIFM, Australian Federal Police correctly wrote in a memo to Vanuatu Police: “Methemoglobin basically results in the inability of blood to carry oxygen within the body causing cyanosis (lack of oxygen to the system). The [autopsy] report states that if the 45% saturation reading was accurate and existed at the time of death, then the symptoms could be consistent with being caused by methemoglobinemia and therefore a possible cause of death. Most cases of methemoglobinemia are caused by exposure to drugs or toxic substances including chlorate and chlorite”.

The pathologist stated that “Methemoglobinemia may be predisposed to by pre-existing glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency (G6PD), a condition often diagnosed in early childhood.”

Sylvia did not have it.

So why do we say the saturation level of methemoglobin found in Sylvia’s blood and which likely arose from the ingestion of chlorate or chlorite “almost certainly” caused her death and not “certainly”?

Because measurement of methemoglobin levels in blood can only be guaranteed accurate if the blood is unpreserved or has been kept frozen at temperatures dozens of degrees below those of which Vila Central Hospital Morgue is capable. There is no doubt that if Sylvia had been close to a proper health facility at the time she became seriously ill, blood would have been taken, analysed immediately and methemoglobin levels confirmed. These levels, had she subsequently died, would have resulted in a certain cause of death being established.

Unfortunately, Sylvia took the MMS, became ill and died in a remote area with virtually no medical facilities and no possibility of evacuation to a fully equipped trauma hospital within a time frame that could have saved her life.


I actually think that I now fully understand why MMS cannot and should not be promoted at this time. I do however believe that should a person be ill and able to make an informed decision (as you can any other medicine) then that is fine -- HOWEVER... you take MMS 'with' this knowledge, not in absolute denial of it ever being possible. Sylvie 'may' have survived should she has been convenient to a hospital - but she wasn't, and may not have done anyway.

Just as Jim Humble explains his chemistry, so is this explained and understood by us mere mortals equally well.

As I say I do not wish to get into a debate as I know there are lots of forums with quite silly debates regarding MMS.

I simply wanted to create my own up to date gathering of this immediate data for any new users of MMS (like me).

By the way - based on this info I may actually decide to use MMS during bathing as my preference and when I am desperate to get better.

I still think it is amazing and think the discovery of the use of MMS is fantastic and Jim Humble should certainly be 100% proud of himself.

However, I wondered if like me you believe that if this is true, then, (as all modern medicines) the listed side effects of nausea etc, it should also be stated that perhaps 1 case of death may be recorded?

Also - does anyone actually know the name of the person that he saved from malaria in his initial discovery?
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:10 PM
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Hundreds of thousands of people have taken mms.
One person died and it was not proved that mms caused it.

Thousands and thousands of people die every year directly from the use of antibiotics and indirectly through the creation of deadly resisitant infections...

yet would you put an antibiotic in your mouth because the doctor says its safe and not to likely that the side effects will get you? I know that I have... you probably have too.

There will always be someone who will die from any given thing.
yet I doubt that mms caused her death... my opinion...
she likely had something else very unusal going on.
I remind you, they could not prove it... so scientifically it is irrelevant.
MMS should be measured by the same standards that drugs are if you are going to use anything near that type of measure. If someone took a new drug and died in the same circumstances the death would be considered irrelevant to the drug because nothing could not be proved... there is not even any circumstancial evidence amongst other people who have taken mms. No one else to my knowledge has come near to death from mms. There have been a couple of hospitalizations related to dehydration, but not well documented.. if this occured, it is because these people did not follow directions, I can only assume. Unfortunately when these reports come out they usually lack details of what happened so an observer can make an evaluation of what happened.

I am also aware that there were other issues involved in this case that has been withheld from the internet... something I learned though people closer associated to this issue.

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Old 04-05-2011, 10:05 PM
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I agree with everything you are saying. This wasn't my question though.

Sadly I was hoping not for a blind counter-reaction - which was not what I was trying to provoke. Remember - I am actually taking MMS.

- And - with respect, questions that possible users of anything have are NEVER irrelevant. It is certainly not scientifically irrelevant if not proven - isn't that doing exactly what people may accuse a pharaceutical company of if there is doubt - and there often is?

Scientifically, and reading everything I have read - In my opinion I think they did prove that it was very probably associated (see the info in blue in my post). This reaction does not come from nowhere.

I totally agree that 1 death does not mean it is a great product - again, please read my post.

What is not relevant is adding something that you might know that someone else that we don't know might have told you that is closer associated to the case.

Also - as you asked: I have not taken antibiotics since I was a child and not responsible for my own health. I have used medication and was also cured of cancer via normal medication. I am open to natural methods as a preference to good health and promote natural methods throughout my family - but am also responsible for my own health and will discuss this if I feel it should be discussed.

I would like to just point out:
- Normal medications do have warnings on them (which was one point I made) for this reason we are warned - albeit in vain at times I agree. Warned none the less.
- There ARE cases ALL OVER the internet and news regarding people dying from pharmaceutical medicines too - what makes you think that they barely exist?

Its a great shame that this kind of conversation tends to open up what felt like a barrage of defence there - and I would not mind if I was taking sides in the arguments - I simply wanted to discuss both sides openly - not one side.

As you said: There will always be someone who will die from any given thing.

I think natural medicine outshines the pharmaceutical companies because we are all looking for closer to nature options that are better for us - and I agree MMS does appear to do just that.

However, if we do not acknowledge any possible problems that might arise - no matter how flukey, then we are not being responsible. This fact does not detract from the worth of the product - but in adavnce of taking it we know there is a one in 10 Billion possibility that our body might have this reaction ....

I think these facts are VERY relevant.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:09 PM
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As you may or may not be aware, if you eat meat you are getting antibiotics.

Antibiotics are given to animals because they cause weight gain, and in the case of overcrowded chickens and turkey's, one sick bird could kill them all..

Any chemist will tell you, when it comes to injesting any substance, (even water) that the dose is the poison. That would include MMS.

Do I believe MMS killed this lady? Absolutely not.

To neutralize an oxidizer such as MMS, you need to take antioxidants, such as fruit, berries, (orange juice) or anything that contains vitamin C, or E for that matter..
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Old 04-06-2011, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinballdoctor View Post
Any chemist will tell you, when it comes to injesting any substance, (even water) that the dose is the poison. That would include MMS.
Yes, I agree. And perhaps this was a contributing factor.

As dehydration can also be a concern for some MMS users then being out in the dry sea air / salty atmosphere may also contributed.

I even heard recently about someone dying of drinking too much water - can't imagine how excessive that must have been!
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:39 AM
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MMS is not a natural "medicine", and should be treated responsibly. It is a chemical and can easily be abused. Twenty Mule Team Borax is an excellent "medicine", but it too can be very easily abused. So can vitamin C. Irresponsible people can cause problems in the alternative healing world, because these things are not sanctioned by mainstream medicine. There is nothing on the labels that warn to not take more than advised, or even side effects. When following the natural path, you are mostly on your own. Anecdotal evidence is about the only thing that will guide you.
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh View Post
MMS is not a natural "medicine", and should be treated responsibly. It is a chemical and can easily be abused.
I agree, I don't think of MMS as a natural medicine, it is a chemical that has been used successfully by some people for their conditions. It's is highly controversial to be sure. I could guess that I would only use this is if I was dying from a serious disease and there were no natural alternatives for treatment. However, I really don't know if I'd ever use it until I was faced with that situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mi...ral_Supplement
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:03 PM
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jfh - Yes, thats it in a nut shell - a most important point raised - and thank you for summing it up. I think in my own tin-pot way i was trying to say that --- I just went all around the houses to do so..

K2C - (If I can be so bold to abbreviate you)
I think that is a very wise choice. I also have now decided to use it in a bath only, instead of orally - my only immediate medical concern is recurring shingles (without the rash but with severe pain and sensitivity) and I believe it is already helping with this. However, it could be one of my other things.

I have used it in spray bottle around the house (cleaning bath / kitchen etc) too.

Many thanks for your input.
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:27 PM
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BlueSky, as for my testimony, I did use MMS for 9 months. That was a worthy test of its capability for my problems. It did help with some minor ailments, but not the ones involved in my health quest. That of constipation due to an overwhelming pathogen community of fungi and bacteria (dysbiosis). Fungus is extremely hard to get rid of, even with colloidal silver. It must have a way to hide in the tissues. Same for my sinuses. I did it the old fashioned way, by bringing the dosage to 15 drops, left it there for a week, and then maintenance dose of about 3 - 6 drops per day. MMS did help with constipation for the first few weeks. To be fair, 5 months of 100mg (not mcg) of iodine did not help either. It did not even fix a sinus infection. The sinuses are a difficult area for anything. The tissues are soft and deep. And I think the blood circulation must not be very good there either. It is difficult to get anything in there to do any good. Recently, I have nebulized with an anti-fungal and colloidal silver. That worked amazingly well. My life might have been more easy, if I had found a good diagnostician.

Don't give up on MMS though. Anecdotal evidence for its ability is overwhelming. I'm just a special case requiring 60 years to fix.

Even though MMS is not a natural medicine, it is an alternative medicine. It should be treated with respect. Many people go too fast, then have problems, then blame the medicine.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:43 AM
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Default Drs use MMS1

Whilst we are dependant on anecdotal evidence, I think it is helpful to know that Drs are prescribing it.
My, also allopathically trained, natraopathic DR with years of successfully treating cancer naturally,
added MMS into the protocols of some patients 2 or 3 yrs back now.
She started using it transdermally until patient skin soreness was reported due to the DMSO aspect of transdermal applications.
She now uses the MMS in injestable form.
That people are using it without Drs or other practitioners support because it is seldom available,
is bound to lead to an occasional problem as people can end up with inadequate info
and are naturally loathe to visit DRS or Emergency Hospitals if on unapproved medicines.
The simple OJ, vit C etc remedy for excessive symptoms needs to be made clear with every recipe for its use that is out there.
It is not clear if it would have been enough in the rare case referenced
or what would have been if it was an adverse reaction to MMS.
Is there a need to state those with the condition G6PD should not take it.
and a way to test for allergy to it prior to taking.

That more people are harmed by asprin helps keep perspective.
There seems every reason to believe that lives would be lost if it became unavailable.
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:25 PM
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Thanks for the info lotus. That's good information. I wish I had a Dr, when I began MMS. I depended upon testimonies of other users. 4 days into my therapy, I was at the point where I had to rush to the toilet, and did not know if I should stick my head in the toilet or quickly sit. I did not know which evacuation route would take place first or both at the same time. I was comforted to know that it was going to be very temporary and I was not alone. That was the turning point for me. I'm very much alive today. Even after using 15 drops for 3 times per day for about a week. But it was anecdotal evidence that kept me on that healthy route. That was when people were first getting started.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSkys View Post
I\Sadly I was hoping not for a blind counter-reaction - which was not what I was trying to provoke. Remember - I am actually taking MMS.

- And - with respect, questions that possible users of anything have are NEVER irrelevant. It is certainly not scientifically irrelevant if not proven - isn't that doing exactly what people may accuse a pharaceutical company of if there is doubt - and there often is?

Scientifically, and reading everything I have read - In my opinion I think they did prove that it was very probably associated (see the info in blue in my post). This reaction does not come from nowhere.
If you are going to talk about science and use that paradigm you need to follow the current rules of the paradigm.

If a scientific study was done and 500,000 people took a drug and only one died stastically that death would be counted as irrelevant to the study, especially if they could not prove beyond doubt that that death was caused by the drug.

With mms way more that 500,000 have used it. This is demonstrated by the market for the product. The estimates now are well over a million. They have likely lost track by now as there are so many people marketing the product around the world.

Associated is not necessarily cause. proof of probably association is no proof at all.

Lotus is spot on. One needs to keep a perspective on this issue. Thousands die every year from tylenol, aspirin, chemotherapy, antibiotics, steroids, as well as from the diseases they are expected to treat and cure.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowwind09 View Post
Hundreds of thousands of people have taken mms.
One person died and it was not proved that mms caused it.

Thousands and thousands of people die every year directly from the use of antibiotics and indirectly through the creation of deadly resisitant infections...

yet would you put an antibiotic in your mouth because the doctor says its safe and not to likely that the side effects will get you? I know that I have... you probably have too.

There will always be someone who will die from any given thing.
yet I doubt that mms caused her death... my opinion...
she likely had something else very unusal going on.
I remind you, they could not prove it... so scientifically it is irrelevant.
MMS should be measured by the same standards that drugs are if you are going to use anything near that type of measure. If someone took a new drug and died in the same circumstances the death would be considered irrelevant to the drug because nothing could not be proved... there is not even any circumstancial evidence amongst other people who have taken mms. No one else to my knowledge has come near to death from mms. There have been a couple of hospitalizations related to dehydration, but not well documented.. if this occured, it is because these people did not follow directions, I can only assume. Unfortunately when these reports come out they usually lack details of what happened so an observer can make an evaluation of what happened.

I am also aware that there were other issues involved in this case that has been withheld from the internet... something I learned though people closer associated to this issue.
Hey girl
This post makes sense. But those pills that have side effects...I don't take them. I won't take them. I won't take antibiotics. They kill my natural flora. I let my immune system take care of stuff. That's what people need to do instead of relying on a chemical to take care of everything for them. That is part of the reason I disagree with MMS. I still don't think it's natural, because it is still a chemical you are putting in your body. It is doing the work for you. The best way to cure diseases is to strengthen the immune system and to let your own body fight the disease.

I don't use anything that can be bought and sold. Humans think they can create something better than nature can...or they think that their alteration of it is better. The only true natural medicine that exists is picking something off a tree or from the ground or water. Don't believe there's anything out there? Well, you may have to look harder
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