#1486  
Old 04-08-2014, 09:50 AM
davids111 davids111 is offline
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Hi S&R,

You are most welcome.

You wrote [above], "I will read the article." Did you, in fact, read it [or at least the first ten paragraphs of it]? That woman suggesting 1 gram every hour for ten hours was onto something, S&R, but the reality [as the article indicates] could have been that your electron needs/Bowel Tolerance [under those circumstances, i.e. a "urinary tract infection"] could easily have been 10 to 20 times that amount. Why not let your body signal you, i.e. indicate, the amount it wants/needs, i.e. via its Bowel Tolerance "reaction?"



That is how I "decide" how much I need at any particular moment. As Dr. Cathcart wrote, "I have seen enormous increases in bowel tolerance to ascorbate in adults, several hours before there was any outward sign of their getting sick." Just ingest all of the ascorbic acid your body is "willing" to accept/absorb. That will put you onto the road to healing and health. It is really that simple! If you get an overly acidic stomach [solved easily with sodium bicarbonate], and/or a "loose stool," take that as an indication [from your body] that you have ingested enough for the moment. That is what I have done for the past 20 years, and the health results have been extremely gratifying to/for me.

I eat [literally] whatever I want now. That notwithstanding, to the extent it is convenient, I try and emphasize whole foods for my dietary intake, e.g. fruits, vegetables, tubers, legumes, [whole] grains, dairy. However, I still end up ingesting a fair amount of refined sugar and grains [as do most people in modern society (which motivates me to ingest one low-dose multiple-vitamin-mineral tablet per day)]. Rather than separate myself from my family and friends [via calorie restriction and/or a strict diet (the "garden of Eden" diet, e.g. raw fruits and vegetables, being, in my opinion, the optimum)], I simply consume all of the ascorbic acid my body indicates it wants/needs, and all health needs seem to be well taken care of [from that practice].

Raw fruits and vegetables have all of the protein a person needs to be perfectly healthy. Consider: When is that time in a person's life when they need the most protein [percentage-wise, i.e. relative to their weight]? Is it not for the first few years of life? At that time they [can] double and triple their weight/size on nothing but mother's milk. How much protein does mother's milk have in it? ONE percent! Fruit has generally around one-half to one percent protein in it. Vegetables slightly more. But an adult needs nowhere near the amount of protein [percentage-wise] that a growing baby needs.

Some further thoughts: Just because a person is "rich and famous" does not necessarily make them an independent thinker. They are just as attached [in their thinking] to the "system" as anybody else, and maybe more so. And yes, you are correct, about what doctors face if they go against the "prevailing" thinking, i.e. doctrinal "truths!" For a good, i.e. tragic, case of that, just read up on the fate of Ignaz Semmelweis. Linus Pauling also faced extreme censure, but that list goes on and on throughout human history, e.g. Socrates, Jesus, Galileo, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseam! The philosopher Schopenhauer well summed up the reality, of how the "system" has always worked, when he wrote, "Really significant steps forward for mankind go through three stages: First, they are ridiculed. Second, they are heavily fought by those who have economic interests in the status quo. And finally, when the dam is breaking, everyone says: Well we knew it all along." As the old saying goes, "He that pays the piper, calls the tune!"

Further, as Dr. Levy wrote, "High dose vitamin C has been proven to be a successful treatment -- and in many cases a complete cure -- for most viral and many bacterial infections. So why does it continue to be ignored?...ridiculed?... shunned?...penalized? Unfortunately, there are four deadly conditions that seem to be unaffected by high-dose vitamin C:
* Ignorance
* Cynicism
* Fear of being proven wrong
* Greed."

And: "Once something gets etched into the pages of the medical textbook, and medical school professors throughout the country teach it to medical students and doctors in post-graduate training, any contradictiins to this orthodox body of knowledge get summarily ignored once these impressionable trainees become practicing physicians. This unquestioning faith in the "established" medical knowledge is so deeply ingrained that many doctors simply will not even consider reading something that comes from sources that they do not consider worthy of producing new medical concepts. And if they do accidentally encounter and read such information, they quickly dismiss it as just being ridiculous if it conflicts with too many of the concepts that most of their colleagues and textbooks embrace. As a practicing physician for more than 25 years, I can assure the reader that virtually all doctors fear being ridiculed by their colleagues more than anything else. This fear, more than any other factor I can identify, appears to almost completely stifle independent medical thought."

To sum up the reality of "swimming against the stream:", "Let no one who has the slightest desire to live in peace and quietness be tempted under any circumstances to enter upon the chivalrous task of trying to correct a popular error." -- William Thomas, 1873

All just "grist for your mill," S&R.

Best wishes,

David
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  #1487  
Old 04-08-2014, 10:40 AM
sow&reap sow&reap is offline
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Thanks again

You wrote: If you get an overly acidic stomach [solved easily with sodium bicarbonate], and/or a "loose stool," take that as an indication [from your body] that you have ingested enough for the moment. That is what I have done for the past 20 years, and the health results have been extremely gratifying to/for me.

I did read most of the article: I recognize that 1000mg every hour if not nearly as sufficient.

I am going to try this out. However, I likely have some experimenting to do as it seems that I will be able to ingest more at times (when illness is approaching or present) and less at others.

1. How will I know if my loose bowels are the result of too much vitamin C or soemthing else I ate?

2. If you conclude that Vitamin C is the respnsible for the loose bowels, do you slightly decrease your next dose but at regular ingetsion time OR do you prolong intervals between doseages?

3. On top of all of this, I cant simply get to a point and say " i have reached my limit"....this limit will change from day to day depending on the need. For example, how do you know when your body is telling you to take more to fight an oncoming cold? Mybe you feel the oncoming cold and know it is time to increase? ...answered my own question perhaps!

Do you recommend any informational books on this?

thanks so much!!!

what do we have to lose? Vitamin C is not nearly as expensive as I willing to pay to not have this issue AND if I take a little too much there is no big deal!!! Let's start the engines!

Thanks David!
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  #1488  
Old 04-08-2014, 11:59 AM
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lovelife lovelife is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryCrumb View Post
I took trimethoprim which was one of the ingredients of bactrim for 6 weeks. I felt fantastic on it, pain was down, no more flu like symptoms, felt as strong as a horse (meaning no longer weak and tired and my strength was back up) once the drug was stopped about 5 days later all symptoms returned. Tried the same medicine again later for 10 weeks and the second time around it made symptoms worse instead of relieving them.

Here is something of interest, my sister has some type of bladder infection she can't get rid of, she's had it over a year now, whenever she stops antibiotics she urinates blood. When the testing comes back from the lab it always says source contaminated so they can't identify the bacteria. She went to the urologist I figure surely a urologist can deal with a bladder infection, and boy was I wrong, he gave her 90 days of bactrim 1 pill a day and he said that is all I can do for you if it doesn't help you'll just have to learn to live with it. The bactrim didn't work and she started urinating blood again while taking it, so because nobody will help her my uncle who orders antibiotics off of some site from Mexico orders her zithromax, only thing is the zithromax won't kill it, it only stops her from urinating the blood and takes some of the sting off. I wanted to share this with you guys, how crazy is that.

I thought it was only Chronic Prostatitis doctors hated messing with and couldn't treat, imagine my surprise to see that doctors don't even wanna mess with treating bladder infections.
Hey Harry
Hope you doing better.
Things are pretty poor at the moment.
Had some counciling and it helped a little but I have a new
thing of having painfull erections that keep me awake
during the night unless I am completely smashed on booze.
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  #1489  
Old 04-08-2014, 12:05 PM
davids111 davids111 is offline
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Hi S&R,

Yes, you are correct, i.e. "experimentation" will tell/teach you what you need to know. And yes, your needs will vary from day-to-day. I generally vary, from day-to-day, from a low of around 75 grams to a high of around 100 grams, but even that can vary. What I eat has a lot to do with that limit, e.g. the more "constipating"/less laxative [type] foods I consume, e.g. cheese, etc., the higher my Bowel Tolerance goes immediately. I just let my body indicate its needs, from moment-to-moment.

When I began 20 years ago with "mega-dosing," my Bowel Tolerance was at around 10 to 15 grams per day. And the reaction was often a very loose stool and lots of flatus. Gradually the benign "diarrhea" lessened, and flatus became the prime Bowel Tolerance indicator. In the past few years, I get very little loose stool, and a lot less flatulence than I used to [I believe because of a cleaner GI tract]. Now my "Bowel Tolerance" indication is really often just a feeling in my stomach of not wanting any more ascorbic acid [at the moment]. Again, S&R, experimentation will teach you your own needs.

You wrote, "How will I know if my loose bowels are the result of too much vitamin C or something else I ate?" A very intelligent question! Unfortunately, I have no absolutely definitive answer for you. If I have a relatively loose stool, I take that as an indication to back off [ingesting any ascorbic acid] until it is through/done, e.g. typically for an hour or two. Paradoxically enough, S&R, Dr. Cathcart has written that he has seen ascorbic acid actually stop/cure chronic diarrhea. So just let those electrons do their healing job! A loose stool is just caused by the unabsorbed ascorbate reaching the lower intestine and there attracting water [to itself], i.e. thereby indicating to you that your body does not want to absorb anymore [for the moment].

The animals all produce their own "mega-gram" doses [standardized to 154 pounds] of ascorbic acid for themselves, as needed, "24/7" for their entire lives. If they have a need, for example from some toxic and/or parasitic ingestion/invasion, they can automatically ramp that production up by a factor of as much as 10 times. Unfortunately, we do not have that "automatic" facility [anymore], but we do [in the past 80 years] have an advantage they do not: We can ingest unlimited amounts of ascorbic acid [and/or inject (sodium ascorbate) as needed], whereas they are limited by a certain production rate, sometimes limited by their [often limited] food supply, e.g. glucose production. Because of that, depending on their ascorbic acid needs, e.g. from say some poison ingestion, it may kill them before they can produce enough ascorbic acid to neutralize the toxin(s).

As you experiment and learn, S&R, you will begin to recognize when you need more, e.g. say when some "germ" is making its presence felt. You will get to the point of always feeling so well, that any slight decrease [in health], e.g. sinus mucous, headache, etc., etc., will immediately notify you of the need for more. In a certain sense, it is a fascinating learning curve in itself [or at least it was to me]!

Initially, I found the articles by Dr. Robert Cathcart to be my prime source of information, and the book by Irwin Stone http://vitamincfoundation.org/stone/. Lately, two books by Dr. Thomas Levy [Curing the Incurable and Primal Panacea] as well as a number of talks of his (on YouTube)] have greatly refined my understanding of the science and usefullness of ascorbate. Additionally, a wonderful resource can be found here http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/.

You are [as always], S&R, most welcome!

We are in complete agreement, i.e. "What do we have to lose?" To which I resoundingly answer: only our ill health! And exactly, i.e. if we take "a little too much there is no big deal!"

Onward and upward, S&R!

All my best wishes [in your definitive health journey],

David
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  #1490  
Old 04-08-2014, 12:28 PM
sow&reap sow&reap is offline
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Default thanks again

Hi David,

I appreciate the logic, honesty, and insight you bring - very refreshing!

I am going to start taking the C tonight!

I will keep you posted! thank you!
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  #1491  
Old 04-08-2014, 12:40 PM
davids111 davids111 is offline
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You are most welcome, S&R!

And yes, please do keep me/us "posted."

Warm regards,

David
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  #1492  
Old 04-08-2014, 01:00 PM
sow&reap sow&reap is offline
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Default just did the math

Hi David

for 27.5 pounds I am looking at $180.00

27.5 pounds = 12 375 grams

100 grams per day at 30 doses per month = 3,000 grams per month

12 375 grams divided by 3,000 grams per month = 4.1245 months


so $180 USD divided by 4.125 months = $43.00 per month ABOUT A CUP OF COFFEE A DAY


and that's a HIGH dosage when you consider 300 grams per day is at the MEGA end.

If someone wnat to only take 10 grams or 10,000 mgs per day, they could do this for as little as 5 bucks a month when buying in bulk

so...... do I mega dose every idea on this forum? this is a resounding NO: I said NO to colloidal silver. I said no to MMS and I have said NO to prettyy much all of it.....maybe I should ..maybe I shouldnt....

But vitamin C is different. I used to take 2000 mgs per day for a long time and 'felt' it was helpful. I believe in vitamin C. It so ironic that years ago my doc stated that he could - in good conscience only recommend 1000 mgs a day though I had been taking 3x this with no issues.....he then prescribed me the max dose of an expensive poision....in good consciene of course........

so, I will pop a couple when I get home, a couple more later in the evening and then a couple more before bed...my goal is...well to find my threshold and ride that out for at least a month

I will not stop at 10grams per day and argue that it did not work. Nor will I find my threshold and discontinue after a few weeks and argue it did not work. i will find my max for every day and ride the max out for at least a month and then evaluate.

Thanks!!! talk soon!
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  #1493  
Old 04-08-2014, 01:57 PM
davids111 davids111 is offline
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Default just did the math

Hi S&R,

If you can get tablets that inexpensively, you are doing well! Might I inquire as to where/who you are purchasing from? I assumed when you wrote "pop a couple" you were referring to tablets. Do you mean [instead] "pop a couple" of grams of the powder/crystals? If you are using the powder/crystals [vs. tablets], I encourage you to rinse you mouth/teeth quickly after each dose. Long-term, that is probably a good idea as far as enamel health.

Yes, unless you are quite ill, 100 grams per day "right out of the starting gate" would probably be surprising.

If you are at your "max," i.e. a Bowel Tolerance dose daily, I would definitely think you would notice some improvement in whatever particular malady you are monitoring/dealing with, i.e. within a month. That is the key, though, i.e. you "must" be at/near Bowel Tolerance in order to notice any dramatic effects. Just to bolster your intent, S&R, note these two quotes [as regards this matter]:

"The clinical symptoms of...diseases and other conditions...are markedly ameliorated ONLY as Bowel Tolerance dose levels (the amount that almost, but not quite, causes diarrhea) are approached." -- Dr. Robert Cathcart, M.D. [emphasis mine]

"The three most important considerations in effective vitamin C therapy are "Dose, Dose, and Dose." If you don't take enough, you won't get the desired effects. Period!...you will rarely ever fail to observe a dramatic response...if you take a large enough dose for a long enough time." -- Dr. Thomas Levy, M.D. [emphasis mine]

I look forward to hearing of your experiences, S&R, on your health adventure!

Warm regards,

David
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  #1494  
Old 04-08-2014, 02:08 PM
sow&reap sow&reap is offline
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Default bulk powder

hi,

my quote was in the powder form

But i have a high quality bottle of of 1000 mg caps at home to get me to the point of bulk purchase

I get it totally: max does is near bowel tolerance...for example your max dose may not be enough / too much in relation to mine

thus, by very nature a controlled study would shun the idea of you and me taking different amounts...but we all know who is in control of controlled studies......

thanks!
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  #1495  
Old 04-08-2014, 02:49 PM
davids111 davids111 is offline
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Hi S&R,

You also may want to check out these guys [for the powder/crystals] http://www.msm-msm.com/store/agora.c...FeeDQgodPBYAgA

If [at some point] you find you want to go with the tablets [which I did after a few years], Costco and Swanson Health are the two sources I found with the best prices. But, there is no doubt in my mind, S&R, the powder/crystals is/are the purest, most potent way to ingest ascorbic acid.

Yes, S&R, you do seem to [for a fact] "get it," i.e. the "perfection," and individuality of, Bowel Tolerance dosing. Not everyone does [at least at first]! To me that was a "magical" concept when I first read about it in 1994 [from Dr. Cathcart, who discovered the method]. No need for any health care practitioner [visits], nor any blood, or other fluid, tests. Just self-reliance upon what your own body is "telling" you, and then complete self-dosing [creating and varying your own dosage protocol]. My kind of health modality!

I look forward to hearing more,

David
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  #1496  
Old 04-09-2014, 09:58 AM
sow&reap sow&reap is offline
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Default Liposomal Vitamin C and practical cents..

Hi David

Now discovering that Liposomal Vitamin C (supposedly...) can deliver up to 8x the punch that regualr vitamin C can carry

One site suggests that 6grams of oral liposomal vitamin C is equivalent to 50g of vitamin C ingested orally or even IV

http://www.health-matrix.net/2013/06...mal-vitamin-c/


You state that you take 100 grams a day. Can I ask why? have you tried taking less than this?

at roughly $6-10 per pound:

you take 100grams per day = 3000 grams per month = you take 6.5 pounds per month

30 you spend about 30 to 60 bucks a month on the high end.

As I am in estern canada I am looking at closer to $11 pound by the time I get it here which means $70 a month

if this is the cost of good health, so be it! I will buy a 25 kg bag for a few hundred bucks and that will do me:

25 kg = 56 pounds = roughly 9 months. I get this 25 kg bag for $400 (i think) which means only $45 bucks a month!

for perfect health so be it!

I am at 6 grams already today and 6 grams last night. no side effects other then feeling great! Call it placebo at this point - I dont care!! I feel better about this. I really do!


so whats your take on liposomal?

thanks
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  #1497  
Old 04-09-2014, 11:52 AM
davids111 davids111 is offline
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Default Liposomal Vitamin C and practical cents..

Hi S&R,

Liposomal ascorbate's power/effectiveness is a big controversy, as far as I am concerned. And that includes what even constitutes true liposomes [and if/whether the product you might be buying (or making) has them (at all)]! Since it costs roughly 50+ times as much [per gram], I do not see any real gain [at least price-wise], and that is IF it is 50+ times more potent! Also, liposomal ascorbate does not cause any Bowel Tolerance reaction, so just like with intravenous ascorbate, you must just "guess" as to how much you "need" [to ingest].

That being said, for some/most(?) people [who's GI tract's are well encumbered, i.e. unhealthy], liposomal ascorbate could be a real boon, because it might allow them to ingest a therapeutically significant dose without having to face the GI tract cleansing [of ascorbic acid Bowel Tolerance dosing (which, from my view, I believe to be a very important factor for/toward one's long-term health prospects]. As just one example, S&R: If an average, i.e. unhealthy, person came to me with cancer, and looking for my suggestions, besides a Bowel Tolerance dose of ascorbic acid daily, I might also suggest additional liposomal ascorbate, i.e. thereby effectively increasing their overall ascorbate, i.e. electron, ingestion.

Ascorbic acid has a [positive] history built up of tens of thousands of studies having been done using it, whereas liposomal ascorbate is the [relatively] "new kid on the block." I suspect [from what I have read (so far)] it has its place, primarily in-lieu-of IV/C. All I can say, S&R, is that [for me] the "jury is still out" [and I most certainly intend to continue with daily Bowel Tolerance dosing with ascorbic acid (as my primary supplemental protocol)].

In answer to your question [as to "why" I ingest so much]: I ingest 75 to 100 grams of ascorbic acid per day because that is my [current] Bowel Tolerance [limit]. Consider: If a person does not use Bowel Tolerance as the method to decide how much they need, what method/standard would/could they use? Most people are simply content to wait until they do not feel too well, i.e. to decide it is time to up their dosage. I prefer a more proactive approach to my health well-being.

Again, as Dr. Cathcart [who treated over 25,000 patients (over a 35 year career) with Bowel Tolerance doses of ascorbic acid] observed and wrote, "I have seen enormous increases in bowel tolerance to ascorbate in adults, several hours before there was any outward sign of their getting sick." We hear all the time of people finding out they have cancer or heart disease, etc., and never knew [apparently] they had a problem "brewing." I believe, S&R, [for reasons that I would like to think are well researched and considered] that daily Bowel Tolerance dosing with ascorbic acid precludes any such outcome from ever happening. And no, I have not experimented with "taking less than this," although I have, on very rare occasions [in the past 20 years], missed a day or two [of ingestion].

My [one gram] tablets [from Costco] run me around two to three cents per gram [depending on if I can get them on sale (or not)]. So my monthly ascorbic acid bill [currently] typically runs around $60 to $80. With no drug or doctor bills to pay, I consider that a serious bargain [not to even mention the discomfort and inconvenience of being sick that I avoid]! Frankly, can one even put a price on [continuous] good health?

And I believe you will "feel better [and better] about this" if you persevere!

Keep in touch,

David
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  #1498  
Old 04-09-2014, 12:51 PM
sow&reap sow&reap is offline
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Hey David

As always thank you for your informed response and the time you took in writing it - thank you very much

1. Seeing that liposomal Vitamin C is the new kid on the block, I will avoid it for now. i thought it would be cheaper as I have seen the 'make it yourself' vids on line.....seemed like a little bit more of a hassle to make it, refrigerate it, store it for outings etc. the pill / powder form is easy to work with AND i like the idea of cleansing the bowel

2. I see that you are being proactive in overall health. Instead of reacting to illness OR feeling well and dropping your dose, you are operating on the idea that something bad could be occurring in you at less than bowel tolerant levels and you would not know til too late

I see your approach goes against the severely flawed "lets react western approach." Moreover, us westerners prefer instant gratification and put tremendous stock into what our doctor assures us. This vitamin C therapy is more for the health conscious individual who gets the idea of proactive health instead of reactive crisis driven modern medicine

Very clear! thanks! -I'll keep you posted

PS one last practical doseage question: if someone was going to ingest 100 grams per day at some point, do you recommend, as many small doses as possible spread through the day? example taking 2 grams a dose 50 times per day vs. 20 grams a dose five times a day?

thanks!!!
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  #1499  
Old 04-09-2014, 02:28 PM
davids111 davids111 is offline
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Default well said

Hi S&R,

You are [as always] most welcome.

1) Yes, I agree completely.

2) My friend, you are more perceptive than most at this early stage! As an example: How does a person know, i.e. for certain, at any particular moment, just what they are inhaling in/with the air they breathe; ingesting in/with the water they drink; and/or ingesting in/with the food they eat [particularly in this day-and-age, in our (arguably polluted) modern societies]? What a wonderful thing, i.e. protection, this Bowel Tolerance dosing with ascorbic acid is!

Yes, people are used to [and typically want] a drug response, and ascorbic acid very rarely "fits that [exact] bill." Swallow a pill, and your trouble(s)/pain(s) is/are over! I do not understand how people could seriously approach their health with/from that viewpoint, but "to each their own!"

Yes, the more doses you can divide your [daily] intake into, the better it will be absorbed, i.e. less "wasted," e.g. theoretically, at least, your Bowel Tolerance should be slightly higher [via more doses]. Also, this would more closely resemble what the animals are constantly doing for themselves, i.e. a gradual "trickle" every minute, day-and-night, throughout their lives. Again, you are getting [an understanding of] this [protocol] very fast, S&R!

As an aside, I have had people tell me that ingesting 100 tablets a day is just too much of a nuisance [we are actually only talking about 3.5 ounces of ascorbic acid]. Number one: Too much of a "nuisance" for your health? Just how much of a "nuisance" is a headache and/or a "cold" and/or the flu, etc., not to even mention the discomfort/pain? And number two: It takes me less than 5 minutes a day to ingest 100 tablets, i.e. I usually swallow them at 6 to 8 at a time, and have swallowed up to 12 at once. A little practice/experience is all it takes, i.e. I find it no "nuisance" at all!

Yes, please do,

David

Last edited by davids111; 04-09-2014 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:31 PM
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HarryCrumb HarryCrumb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovelife View Post
Hey Harry
Hope you doing better.
Things are pretty poor at the moment.
Had some counciling and it helped a little but I have a new
thing of having painfull erections that keep me awake
during the night unless I am completely smashed on booze.
My symptoms are extremely hormonal at the moment, I still have the low back pain, anal pain, worn out feeling. But I'm constantly turned on and can't be satisfied, I'm not married which doesn't help, the last girl I was with back in December 2013 I went 4 hours straight during sex, the overwhelming feeling of being turned on is to much to bare, yet I still have some erection difficulty. I've also noticed my appetite is through the roof as well, I eat three or four times more than the average person, also I'm extremely thirsty and constantly drink water. I can tell whatever I have causing all of this is messing with my hormones, maybe testosterone
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