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  #16  
Old 01-11-2013, 03:56 PM
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OK, according to your theory, and I'm not dismissing it by the way, gout should affect middle aged men alot more than middle aged women, since the women have been menstrating for most of their lives, thus eliminating excess iron while the men have been accumulating it along with molybdenum...and if gout is caused by fungi as I have suggested, then middle aged women would have gout at the same rate as the men. Does that seem logical?



I have posted alot of material concerning people who are deficient in copper, and how copper deficiency leads to white hair, wrinkles, crows feet around eyes and mouth, and aneurysm, eventually causing ruptured aortic aneurysm resulting in a quick death, just like what happened to Albert Einstein, so I know a bit about the benefit of copper.

I do not know how copper deficiency would affect gout, however, I do realize copper deficiency would cause several health issues as stated above. I also mentioned in another post that curcumin, taken in high enough doses, will eliminate excess iron in the blood. That does not mean it will chelate iron, it means it will chelate excess iron. There are some pubmed studies that back this up.

As you may or may not know, curcumin is a strong anti-inflammatory, and is also a very powerful anti-fungal, as is celery seed extract. These herbs, as well as others, eliminate gout better than allopurinol, which is the number 1 prescribed med for gout.

Fungus can be easily eliminated from the body, however, systemic fungal infection is another story. It can take years to get rid of these "smart" organisms..
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:36 AM
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Menstruating women not only have lower Fe and Mo, but also high Cu, because estrogen increases Cu's half life. Accordingly they have lower uric acid levels. However, even menstruating women can have high Fe if they have hemochromatosis.

That's why everybody should check their ferritin and serum iron periodically.

You seem to rely on the fact that curcumin binds to and eliminates iron to ensure adequate iron levels. If you do not check your ferritin periodically, the probability that you succesfully stay in the optimum range is quite low. The same thing occurs with frequent donors. They may easily donate too much or too little and fall out of the optimum range, if they don't check ferritin periodically.
It's like the pressure in your tires. Its easy to assume it's right and never check it, but if you don't its likely to be low. The only way to know is to check it regularly and then your tires last much longer. Iron is normally increasing in men and menopausal women, but if there is moderate internal bleeding it may remain stable or drop.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:14 PM
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I understand what iron does in the body, and have several posts that explain why women generally live longer than men.

I have shown that iron is a potent oxidizer, and does to your body what rust does to your car. I have also stated that iron, while absolutely necessary for the body to function properly, ferritin should be near the low end of what is considered the normal level, about 40.

According to an Italian MS doctor, veins, generally in the neck, become blocked so they don't drain properly. He insists that this results in excess iron buildup in the brain, causing all kinds of issues, including MS symptoms. I don't know if he is right or not, however, if I had blocked veins in my neck I would want them unblocked.

The only area that I disagree with this doctor is in using stents. I believe there is a better, natural way of unblocking these veins, through high dose vitamin C as well as other mega-nutrients.

I wish Arrow was still here because she would have some good information to share on the subject of iron/excess iron.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:49 PM
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Hey PBD I had very low blood flow in my leg which contributed to bad sores. The doctor used a stent to help the flow increase but that didn't help enough. So I applied a Rife machine. That seems to have done the job.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:26 PM
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This small clinical trial for phlebotomy on gout gives you an idea of the benefits. However, the frequent phlebotomy exacerbated the Cu and Mg deficiencies and caused a Zn deficiency. Had these elements and vit D and B complex been supplied, the patients would have faired even better, resolving gout in all of them.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12832712
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:08 AM
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One of my 50 factors that contibute to gout file:

Clostridium acidi urici and purinolyticum produce uric acid and may play a role in causing gout., when they are present in the small intestine (which is abnormal). They can be displaced by taking lactulose or with a fecal transplant.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:36 AM
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I have read several articles on gout, from both mainstream and alternative points of view, and have never come across articles that state gout is caused by excess iron.

That does not mean iron isn't a "player" when it comes to gout, however it seems to me that gout is confirmed through a blood test, as would be high iron, and why haven't doctors confirmed this "link" if it were the cause of gout.

The most recent information is that gout is caused by sugar intake in all its forms, especially fructose. I don't mean the small amount of fructose in fruit, I mean the high fructose corn syrup that is in just about every processed product.

Now, to be fair, there may be a link between fructose and iron. What I do know is that fructose is food for fungi, although again to be fair, fungi is also not mentioned in articles about gout.

The following is what doctor Mercola states about gout:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...Naturally.aspx

The Real Cause of Gout
You may have wondered why you developed gout, while your spouse, neighbor, or co-worker didnít. The simple answer is typically quite straightforward once you understand how your body works and is generally related to your diet and lifestyle.
Your genetics also play a relatively minor role. If either or both of your parents had gout, you have a higher predisposition to getting it. That means your children also are at risk for gout.
But simply reducing your intake of sugar-sweetened beverages during childhood could lessen the risk of gout as an adult, and Iíll discuss why this may be in an upcoming section.

At the most basic level, a gout attack usually results from years of having high levels of uric acid in your blood, a condition called hyperuricemia.
While uric acid normally dissolves in your blood and passes harmlessly through your kidneys, itís possible for your body to either produce too much uric acid or excrete too little in your urine. The resulting buildup of uric acid forms needle-like crystals in your joints and surrounding tissues that causes the intense pain.

Hyperuricemia often has no symptoms, but as these uric acid levels increase in your blood, mainly due to poor dietary choices, your risk of an impending attack increases also.
Besides gout, elevated uric acid is related to a variety of other health conditions, including:
  • Diabetes
  • High cholesterol
  • High blood pressure
  • Kidney disease
  • Heart disease
Just How Common is Gout?
Between 2 million and 5 million Americans suffer from gout,
about 90 percent of them being men in their 40s and older.In recent years, the prevalence of gout has been rising rapidly in the United States and in other developed countries. This comes as no surprise, because the principal reason for the increase of gout stems from the processed foods we consume, along with our devotion to other unhealthy lifestyle habits.
In developing nations, much of the food is harvested and eaten directly from the earth.

There are no processing plants to remove the nutrients from their food. Their entire lifestyle is exceedingly healthy. Indigenous people live hardy, outdoor lives with plenty of exercise, non-processed, nutrient-rich foods, and little or no access to television, video games, or even liquor.
But in the United States and other Westernized countries, this is no longer true. America has for the most part shifted its dietary preferences to highly processed foods, and many are now suffering from diseases like gout as a result.
High-Fructose Corn Syrup is a Major Risk Factor
Although gout is commonly blamed on eating too many high-purine foods, such as organ meats, anchovies, herring, asparagus and mushrooms, there is another clear culprit: high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS).

Countless health problems have been linked to the consumption of HFCS, not the least of which is gout. A recent study showed that consumption of sugar-sweetened soft drinks is strongly associated with an increased risk of developing gout.

The study, done by U.S. and Canadian researchers, indicated that men who drank two or more sugary soft drinks a day had an 85 percent higher risk of gout than those who drank less than one a month. In fact, the risk significantly increased among men who drank five to six servings of sugary soft drinks a week. Fruit juice and fructose-rich fruits such as oranges and apples also increased the risk.
This makes sense on many levels, but first and foremost because fructose is known to inhibit the excretion of uric acid.

Fructose also reduces the affinity of insulin for its receptor, which is the principle characteristic of type 2 diabetes. Further, HFCS has been implicated in elevated blood cholesterol levels, and it has been found to inhibit the action of white blood cells in your immune system.
Many of the health conditions that HFCS causes, including high cholesterol and diabetes, also increase your risk of developing gout.

Additionally, fructose converts more readily to fat than other sugars, making it a major risk factor for both diabetes and obesity -- another gout risk factor.

In a fructose metabolism study, it was noted that when two high-fructose breakfast drinks were consumed, the build-up of stored fat continued into the afternoon, during which time the quick conversion of fructose to fat remained active during digestion of the lunch meal.The study concluded that the higher the concentration of fructose in the diet, the higher the rate of fat conversion.

Frequently, fruit juices also have fructose added to them, and if you still believe that this is an acceptable form of sugar, think again. Fructose contains no beneficial enzymes, vitamins, minerals, or additional micronutrients. Instead, it actually leeches them from your body.

Unbound fructose, found in large quantities in HFCS, can also interfere with your heart"s use of vital minerals such as magnesium, copper and chromium.
Hidden Fructose in Your Foods
You may think that avoiding fructose means just staying stay away from desserts and sweet drinks, but unfortunately there is more to it as fructose is hidden in many foods you would not even suspect.

According to biochemist Russ Bianchi, HFCS is ďintentionally mislabeled, or (uses) deceptively legally noncompliant names like: "chicory," "inulin," "iso glucose," "glucose-fructose syrup," "dahlia syrup," "tapioca syrup," "glucose syrup," "corn syrup," "crystalline fructose," and flat-out fraud "fruit fructose," orÖ"agave"Ö"

Even processed meats and other foods you would never imagine contain HFCS.
Why?

The commercial food industry embraces HFCS because it is easier to blend, and sweeter than table sugar. And itís also cheaper.

Additionally, the food manufacturers can sell more products because they know that HFCS, like all sugar, has an addictive effect, and once your taste buds are stimulated, you will want more and more.Sugar, and added salt, can stabilize food ingredients, enabling food manufacturers to keep it on the shelves longer.

The industry has also started to air deceptive ad campaigns claiming that HFCS is all natural to counteract this information.

Fortunately you donít have to be deceived by them as you now know the truth.
So, instead of drinking enormous amounts of sugar-laden sodas, fruit juice, and other sweet beverages that will only worsen or cause gout, your best choice will be to choose pure water, because the fluids will help to remove uric acid from your body.

You can add small amounts (about a teaspoonful) of fresh-squeezed lemon or lime juice to your water for flavor. But use caution with higher quantities if you have issues with your insulin level, because too much added fruit juice can adversely affect that.

Also, be sure to eliminate those cookies, cakes, pies, candy bars, and other sweets that can aggravate your gout just as badly as HFCS.
Maintaining Ideal Body Weight Large Part of the Solution
Another risk factor for gout is obesity, or any excessive weight gain. Approximately half of all gout sufferers are overweight.

Excess weight worsens gout because irritated nerve endings are further irritated by having to support and deal with extra weight.Of course, obesity can worsen any type of arthritis.
Furthermore, medical data shows a remarkably high prevalence of Metabolic Syndrome (heart disease and diabetes symptoms such as insulin resistance, abdominal obesity, hypertension, and high triglyceride levels) in gout sufferers.

A 2002 study of obese women with Metabolic Syndrome found that weight gain, especially around the abdomen, led to increased levels of proteins from their immune systems called cytokines. Certain cytokines cause an inflammatory response, which can contribute to the formation of fatty deposits in arteries, otherwise known as atherosclerosis.

After a one-year program of diet, exercise, and behavioral counseling, each obese woman in the study lost at least 10 percent of their starting weight (about 22 pounds, on average). They also showed a significant reduction in their levels of cytokines and other potentially damaging proteins.

Weight loss represents a safe method for reducing inflammatory states and ameliorating blood-vessel dysfunction in obese women. Cytokine levels returned towards normal even though women did not lose all their excess weight. Gout is an inflammatory condition, and it is clear from this study that losing weight, and keeping it off, will greatly improve your chances of avoiding further gout attacks.

You can do this most effectively by first determining your Nutritional Type.ô The next section will give you more details on this revolutionary system to better health and lasting weight loss.

And if you didnít have enough reasons to avoid HCFS, remember that it also exacerbates obesity. Excess sugar in any form, particularly HFCS, also harms organs like your liver and pancreas, leading to bone loss, anemia and heart problems.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:45 AM
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You never read my old article then and the one I mentioned above above the small blood donation clinical trial.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10616042

As I said, type gut and iron in pubmed and you will find 43 articles.

30% of central Europeans have fructose intolerance, in these people fructose plays a major role. Not in most people, including some stating that iron ameliorate gout. The problem is that iron has not been identified as a main culprit, because Mo, Cu and Mg also play crucial roles and most doctors and clinical trials are incapable of handling several variables simultaneously.

If fructose were the culprit, why does gout usually appear in males over 40 and menopausal women. Seldom in young men and menstruating women, who consume just as much or more fructose. The only explanation I can find for this incidence defferential is the fact that we accumulate iron, molybdenum and lead with age and experience waning testosterone and vit D levels with age, which result in reduced copper and magnesium half life respectively.

By the way fructose intolerance+fructose intake+excess iron+low Cu increase the risk of candidiasis.

As I have stated repeatedly, your doctor and most blame uric acid, but only <10% of people with uric acid>6 experience gout, and these people experience gout with lower uric acid levels than people with cancer or rheumatoid arthritis who do not expeirence gout attacks even with uric acid>10, often >12.
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Old 01-14-2013, 03:53 PM
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Iron overload is a real health issue. I also agree that donating blood on a regular basis is a good idea, however I know of only one person over 40 who regularly donates blood. That means there are alot of middle-aged people who have too much iron in their blood.

We know, through A1C tests, that red blood cells are replaced every 3 months, which also means that new red blood cells are created every 3 months. We also know that most excess iron is stored in the liver.

Now what if we could take a supplement that would get rid of this excess iron, and donated blood on a regular basis as well. This supplement, as stated in another post, is curcumin, @400mg twice per day.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22944278

[Curcumin inhibits iron overload-induced hepatocytic apoptosis and nuclear factor-κB activity].

[Article in Chinese]
Qian JJ, Zhai XG, Niu MH, Zhou Q, Zhou YJ.
Source

Department of General Surgery, Affiliated Hospital of Nantong University, Nantong, China.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

Iron is an essential micronutrient for human beings but its overload induces various diseases of liver, the main body storage site for iron, such as liver fibrosis. Curcumin is a natural polyphenol derived from turmeric and has been used widely. Its pharmacological action has attracted great attention in recent years. The apoptosis of rat cultured hepatocytes was induced by FeNTA (ferric nitrilotriacetate)-induced Iron overload. The present study was to examine the effect of curcumin at low concentrations on FeNTA-induced apoptosis of hepatocytes and elucidate the underlying mechanisms.
METHODS:

After the incubation of hepatocytes with 100 Ķmol/L FeNTA in the presence or absence of 1 - 10 Ķmmol/L of curcumin, a series of analyses were performed, including the analyses of hepatocytic apoptosis, the expressions of proteins relating with the regulations of cell apoptosis, caspase-3 activity, the production of reactive oxygen species (ROS) and nuclear factor NF-κB activity.
RESULTS:

Curcumin reduced the FeNTA-induced hepatocytic apoptosis by 46.65% and significantly down-regulated the protein levels of Bcl-2 and Bcl-XL. In contrast, it had no effect on the protein levels of Bax and Bad. The curcumin treatment reduced FeNTA-caused production of ROS and caspase-3 activity by 45.01% and 59.71% respectively. And the NF-κB activity was also inhibited.
CONCLUSION:

Curcumin at low concentrations reduces iron overload-caused hepatocytic apoptosis and NF-κB activity, the key regulatory transcription factor for the inflammation-related gene expression in cultured hepatocyte.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:09 PM
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Again, have you ever analyzed your ferritin, serum iron and hemoglobin simultaneously? I may be certain my tires have plenty of air, but when I check the pressure be surprised.
The idea that because you take a random amount of an iron chelator (which is what curcumin is) you have ideal iron levels without checking is ridiculous. just like the idea that donating blood without checking ferritin and serum iron is enough and never too much.
Curcumin does not selectively remove excess iron in the liver, it simply binds to iron wherever it finds it. It even traverses the blood brain barrrier and binds to iron there, where it also accumulates or where it may be deficient.

You think qualitatively, which is wonderful for speculation and philosophy, but numbers rule the universe, quantitative information is worth a thousand qualitative arguments.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:59 AM
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Regarding excess weight:
My normal weight father developed gout at age 43, my very slender older brother developed gout at age 42 and my slender cousin, who smoked and drank very heavily developed gout at age 27, all 3 ate beef often and neither one drank a lot of sodas, my older brother and father drank only wine in moderation. None was a frequent donor.

It is very amusing that almost all texts, articles and websites blame purines for gout.
People who develop gout consumed the same or more purines when they were 25 yo than when they developed gout. In their unlimited ignorance many texts and articles also connect purines to protein, which is absurd since protein contains no purines. Purines are in DNA, RNA, ATP, etc, The so called high purine foods which they suggest that should be avoided: Organ meats, oysters, beef, anchovies, sardines, etc, are all rich in Fe. Liver or beef have no more purines than chicken breast, sardines have no more purines than white fish filets, but they do have a lot more iron (usually iron content correlates with darkness). White fish not only has a lot less Fe than beef, it also has Cu and omega 3, which prevent gout and which beef lacks.
Ethanol greatly contributes to gout because it enhances Fe absorption and reduces urate solubility and elimination in urine.

Tobacco contains Fe, Cd, Pb, etc, which contribute to gout.
Excess Cd is particularly interesting, because it exacerbates hyperuricemia when (Fe+Mo+Pb)/(Cu+Mg+Si) is high in people with gout or hyperuricemic rheumatoid arthritis and Cd exacerbates hypouricemia when Cu/(Fe+Mo+Se+Zn) is high in MS, hypouricemic rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, etc,

Another factor that increases the risk of gout is high (niacin+B2)/(folate+B6), since niacin and B2 are cofactors for xanthine oxidase.

Another often ignored fact is that just like we synthesize cholesterol when we eat rice (which has no cholesterol) when we have insulin resistance and may develop high cholesterol, despite being vegetarians, we also synthesize purines.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:09 PM
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It's best to test.

Our iron comes from diet and sometimes, when we are not careful, our vitamin/mineral supplement and possibly cooking with cast iron. Those who believe that megadose of vitamin C is beneficial, might be concerned that the vitamin might cause more absorption of iron.

Also, coming from our diet is phytic acid. From plants and much from wheat and soy. There may be no need to worry about iron accumulation so much. That's why it is best to test.

Quote:
Phytic acid is a unique substance that serves as one of the primary storage forms for phosphorus in plants. It is composed of inositol-a B vitamin-like molecule-and six phosphorus-containing units. As part of the natural composition of plants, phytic acid is likely to have health benefits, even though research studies on these health benefits are still in the early stages. Phytic acid appears to have important antioxidant properties in certain circumstances when cells and tissue need protection from oxidation, and it also appears to have important anti-inflammatory properties.

Phytic acid is also one of the substances found in some plant foods that can bind together with non-heme iron and lower its absorption. While there is no question that phytic acid lowers absorption of non-heme iron, the degree to which absorption is lowered, and the practical consequences of this lowering, is a matter of some debate. Since we never absorb more than approximately 20% of the iron found in plants-even when those plants contain no phytic acid whatsoever-we would always be getting relatively small amounts of bioavailable iron from any single food within a plant-based diet.

Luckily, however, a very large number of plant foods can provide us with a small amount iron. About 50 of the World's Healthiest plant foods rank as "good," "very good," or "excellent" sources of iron! When all of these plant foods are combined together in a balanced diet, they typically end up providing a healthy supply of iron. In a single serving, any one of these foods will provide less than 10 milligrams of total iron, and therefore at most, only 2 milligrams of bioavailable iron. But remember that it's the combination of all foods that is important.

http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=325
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:08 PM
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In general plants are lousy sources of iron.
For example, it is a widespread myth that spinach are rich in iron. In fact spinach have little iron and have pythic acid which inhibits its absorption. Seeds have more iron, but also contain phytic acid. Phytic acid also blocks Zn absorption. People with low Fe or Zn who cannot afford or do not want to eat meats should eat brewer's yeast, which contains phytase, an enzyme that lyzes phytic acid. Herbivores can extract plenty of Fe, because the flora in the rhumen, etc, can metabolize phytate.

Tea also inhibits Fe absorption, so it is not a good idea to drink tea when ferritin<35, but it is very good when ferritin>58.

As I have mentioned previously, with the availability of ferritin, serum iron and hemoglobin testing, it is absurd to assume that we have adequate iron levels, since intake seldom balances with elimination and losses from menstruation, internal bleeding, etc,

One interesting fact is that although doctors always connect anemia with iron deficiency and often prescribe iron supplements without checking ferritin and serum iron, many people with anemia have adequate or excessive iron levels. For example, people with advanced hemochromatosis have so much iron that the bone marrow cells that make red cells die from iron toxicity. Another example is copper deficiency anemia, in which people have toxic iron levels in liver, but lack hephaestin, the Cu protein that mobilizes iron.

Today they add iron to white bread, cereal, etc, which may help Fe deficient people (if they have enough vitamin C and not too much phytic acid) but certainly harms the millions of people with excess iron.

As I have said repeatedly, most people fall outside my optimum range 35<ferritin<58, yet ferritin is checked unjustifiably seldom. This negligence results in untold misery and billions of dollars spent treating condirions that result from a problem that can be easily detected and corrected.

Please note that I'm not blaming solely Fe for gout, since most men with ferritin>58 never develop gout. Genetics, high Fe, Mo, Pb & Cd and low Cu, Mg, Si & vit D, impaired kidney function, blood pH<7.4 and many other variables play crucial roles in gout. Which is why I advocate donating blood, taking supplements and when urea>30 &/or uric acid>5.5 taking the sodium bicarbonate and the hot brine baths.

When my cousin developed gout at age 27 (about 25 years ago) his foot swoll so much that he couldn't walk and was taken to a hospital, where they promptly applied ice, which he says made the pain even more unbearable. When he contacted me about 6 years ago with another attack (despite allopurinol) I told him to take bicarbonate and the baths. He couldn't believe how quickly the pain went away after 2 baths the same day. A week later I asked him for all the tests I always use. Ferritin was 236, hemoglobin 17 and serum iron 180. Ferritin usually drops 20 points with every donation and if you stop donating it begins to rise slowly. So It took him a while to reach my range, but while he kept donating every 2 months and taking the Cu, etc, he didn't have gout attacks even before reaching my range. He had seen 8 physycians, 2 of them rheumatologists before contacting me and none of them ever ordered ferritin, hemoglobin and serum iron test or suggested that blood donation might help, much less supplementation and brine baths. BY the way, like most donors with excess Fe, he reported feeling a little better immediately after donation.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:07 PM
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As an example of the importance of pH. Candida albicans releases a substance called pH regulated antigen 1, which it uses to extract Zn from human proteins, leaving leukocytes powerless to attack the fungus and providing Zn to the latter. Similar substances called siderophores are released by bacteria, fungi and protozoa to capture iron from human proteins.
The solubility of urate drops from 1,580 to 60 mg/l when urine pH drops from 7 to 5 (the latter is 100x more acidic, since the pH scale is logarithmic,so each number represents a factor of ten).
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