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  #1  
Old 12-09-2005, 11:26 PM
JK
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Default Why are there so many health care jobs compared to others?

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but every time I open the want ads, the amount of job openings in the health care field (nurses, therapists, technicians, paperpushers, etc) is HUGE compared to other fields. Does anyone know the reason(s) for this phenomenon? The salaries mentioned in the ads seem very generous with sign-up bonuses and what not. For example, a freshly minted RN with NO experience can now rake in as much as a long-time engineer or accountant, so I don't think the disproportionate number of job openings is because of RNs retiring or quitting their jobs due to low pay...
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2005, 12:31 AM
Bill_
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They US population is aging and thus, on average, needing more care. The nursing schools are full. They can not hire more faculty because typically the school they are embedded in puts a cap on salaries at different levels so it is hard to get someone into teaching - you need experience and advanced degrees. On the other hand, the faculty is aging and retiring.

Bill
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  #3  
Old 12-10-2005, 01:26 AM
O'Hush
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Quote:
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but every time I open the want ads, the amount of job openings in the health care field (nurses, therapists, technicians, paperpushers, etc) is HUGE compared to other fields. Does anyone know the reason(s) for this phenomenon? The salaries mentioned in the ads seem very generous with sign-up bonuses and what not. For example, a freshly minted RN with NO experience can now rake in as much as a long-time engineer or accountant, so I don't think the disproportionate number of job openings is because of RNs retiring or quitting their jobs due to low pay...
Where's that? I'm moving there. I'm in nursing school now, and we've been told that on graduation we can expect to make about 18 bucks an hour here in central NC, though the pay increases quite a lot after one to three years.

--Patti
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  #4  
Old 12-10-2005, 02:40 AM
Robert Vienneau
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I suggest Baumol's idea of the "cost disease" is a theory that goes some step to explaining why one might have the above impressions.
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2005, 02:40 AM
Protocol Droid
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They US population is aging and thus, on average, needing more care. The nursing schools are full. They can not hire more faculty because typically the school they are embedded in puts a cap on salaries at different levels so it is hard to get someone into teaching - you need experience and advanced degrees. On the other hand, the faculty is aging and retiring.
Once the libertarians in the GOP kill off the entitlement programs, those newly-minted health care workers will be out of a job.

--
How can the economy be improving when real wages are down $600 million and the number of American people in poverty has increased 14 percent since 2000?

http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p60-229.pdf, pg 53
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  #6  
Old 12-10-2005, 02:40 AM
Phil Scott
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Where's that? I'm moving there. I'm in nursing school now, and we've been told that on graduation we can expect to make about 18 bucks an hour here in central NC, though the pay increases quite a lot after one to three years.

--Patti
The pay is a lot higher in high rent areas...but not enough to compensate for the high rent. An RN here in the SF bay area gets about 35 dollars an hour... the next step up, a 'nurse practitioner' 60 to 80 dollars an hour.

A one bedroom apt here though rents for 1500 dollars in an older building, 2,000 dollars and up in a newer or high rise building.

The demand for RN's however will go up fast. there is already a shortage.

My advice, get some added qualifications and skill sets to add to your resume. You have made a good career choice. that work cannot be moved offshore at least.

Phil Scott
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  #7  
Old 12-10-2005, 02:05 PM
Williams
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Default Nurses now making $167K a year?

So a nurse practitioner working only 40 hrs a week at $80/hr ===> $167K a year, and with all the benefits paid for!! no malpractice insurance either... so is it true then that nurses are making more than doctors??? i know doctors are not hourly workers so they don't get paid by the hour...

No wonder nursing schools are full...
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  #8  
Old 12-10-2005, 02:40 PM
nospam
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Phil Scott wrote:
Quote:
My advice, get some added qualifications and skill sets to add to your resume. You have made a good career choice. that work cannot be moved offshore at least.
Don't bet on that:

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus...0512101115.htm
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  #9  
Old 12-10-2005, 02:40 PM
Phil Scott
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fascinatin' ain't it?


Engineering has already gone that way extensively... lately though there has been a faint reversal (not much but some), of hiring back out of work US engineers. I guess the powers that be have decided that they didnt want to have to rely exclusively on the Islamic/ muslim nations to build and operate our infrastructure given. These seem happy with depending on communist china to build much of our military electronics. Thats hot.


This fast developing trend of sending US medical patients to india and china will increase dramatically as our own US govt cannot afford pay its lush pensions and 100% medical care to a retired civil service that outnumbers working civil service two to three to one. Already behind the scenes in most state of calif offices is an army of green card people (not at the front desks where they meet the public, but in the back offices..).

It will not however be possible to fly that much long term care to India, so the demand for nurses in the US will continue to increase...but yes, this move to outsource patients will cut into their pay rates...also there is little impediment to using green card nurses in the US, that is already pervasively comon, mostly from the Philipines as it stands now.

My personal solution after getting an up close and personal look at what US medicine has to offer ..was to study up on preventive and restorative measures and avoid the entire disaster as long as possible. That has worked out well so far, at age 64 I am one of the worlds oldest flat track motorcycle racers...and sharp too.

Phil Scott
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  #10  
Old 12-10-2005, 02:40 PM
Howard McCollister
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Quote:
so a nurse practitioner working only 40 hrs a week at $80/hr ===> $167K a year, and with all the benefits paid for!! no malpractice insurance either... so is it true then that nurses are making more than doctors???
$167K is highly unlikely. A typical Nurse Practitioner or Physician Assistant with experience will be in the neighborhood of $75,000 - $85,000 per year. Might be a little higher on the coasts. Some specialized PA's, such as Orthopedic PA's might do considerably better, but even in that circumstance, $167,000 per year would be highly unusual.

HMc
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  #11  
Old 12-10-2005, 09:23 PM
Phil Scott
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The nurse practitioner I met in 1995, 10 years ago, was getting 65 dollars an hour. Physicians assistant might describe a less skilled person in some areas.

Phil Scott
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  #12  
Old 12-10-2005, 11:15 PM
Howard McCollister
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Highly unlikely. Certainly so for a Nurse Practitioner in clinical practice.

PA's and NP's in clinical practice are basically on the same pay scale for primary care specialties. The money for "physician extenders" is in the surgical specialities and it is less common to find NP's in the operating room. Generally, Physician Assistants have a higher median salary than Nurse Practitioners.

HMc
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  #13  
Old 12-11-2005, 02:40 AM
O'Hush
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Aren't nurse practitioners more educated than physician assistants? I've seen physician assistants who have just a bachelor's degree, whereas every nurse practitioner I know holds a master's degree. Besides, it seems that a nurse practitioner has more autonomy than a physician assistant. A nurse practitioner can set up shop anywhere by
themselves, compared to a physician assistant who - by definition - assists a physician and is required by law to be supervised by a physician. I know many pharmacies will not honor a prescription written by a physician assistant unless it's countersigned by a supervising physician. Anyhow, I believe that if a patient wants to see a doctor and all they get is an assistant, then maybe the patient or whoever pays the bill should get a hefty discount (there is a big difference between a real M.D. and a less educated assistant, and everybody knows it...)
There's little doubt that four years of med school plus three years of residency provides greater education than two years of NP school beyond a bachelor's degree.

The rules governing NP practice vary state by state. The boards of nursing in each state set the licensure requirements and make rules regarding standard nursing practice, and also rules governing advanced practice nurses (like whether NPs can write prescriptions with or without supervision, and whether there are limitations to their Rx rights). Here in NC, NPs can write Rx under the supervision of a doc. The doc's name is on their Rx pad, but he/she doesn't have to sign. There are a few states that don't require NPs to have any physician supervision, and in other states they can't write scrips at all. PAs and other health pros aren't governed by the state boards of nursing. I'm not sure whose bailiwick that is, or what the rules are in their regard.

--Patti
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  #14  
Old 12-11-2005, 02:40 AM
jsn
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Highly unlikely. Certainly so for a Nurse Practitioner in clinical practice.

PA's and NP's in clinical practice are basically on the same pay scale for primary care specialties. The money for "physician extenders" is in the surgical specialities and it is less common to find NP's in the operating room. Generally, Physician Assistants have a higher median salary than Nurse Practitioners.

HMc
Aren't nurse practitioners more educated than physician assistants? I've seen physician assistants who have just a bachelor's degree, whereas every nurse practitioner I know holds a master's degree. Besides, it seems that a nurse practitioner has more autonomy than a physician assistant. A nurse practitioner can set up shop anywhere by themselves, compared to a physician assistant who - by definition - assists a physician and is required by law to be supervised by a physician. I know many pharmacies will not honor a prescription written by a physician assistant unless it's countersigned by a supervising physician. Anyhow, I believe that if a patient wants to see a doctor and all they get is an assistant, then maybe the patient or whoever pays the bill should get a hefty discount (there is a big difference between a real M.D. and a less educated assistant, and everybody knows it...)
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  #15  
Old 12-11-2005, 02:40 PM
Robert
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Sure. Practical knowledge/experience is often more important than formal education/theoretical knowledge. That scenario has numerous corollaries in a wide variety of professions over hundreds of years; the Platoon Sergeant vs his brand-new 2nd Lieutenant, the experienced surgical PA vs his/her supervising surgeon just out of residency. Nothing new or particularly revelatory about any of that.

HMc
When it comes to new techniques and both are inexperienced then education and theoretical knowledge is very much relevant. Unfortunately you run into "you can't teach old dogs new tricks" comes into place. Experience vs evidenced based medicine is at odds. As a teacher, I have problem with both groups and can see the good and the bad from both. When something new comes along I have trouble with the old experienced people picking it up and when something classically old is seen then the inexperienced have trouble seeing it.
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