Go Back   Natural Medicine Talk > Health > Systems & Organs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 02-17-2010, 07:38 PM
Spirit Raintree Spirit Raintree is offline
Certified Nutritionist
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 58
Spirit Raintree is on a distinguished road
Default

Hello everybody,

Cyber junkie, I would definitely reduce or eliminate all the things you are doing right now that cause you noticeable distress. You mentioned the juice and the MMS in particular. Listen to the feedback your body is giving you.

I am a big fan of plant based digestive enzymes simply because they support natural digestion and generally don't cause discomfort, even when taken on an empty stomach. Plant-based enzymes also have the advantage that they aren't likely to cause dependence. They don't duplicate anything your body manufactures on its own. All raw fruits and vegetables contain plant based enzymes. I've had good results with enzymes from Enzymedica. They make a product called Digest and a more potent version called Digest Gold. Very high quality product. In this case, however, if they aren't working for you, eliminate them until you get a more solid grasp on exactly what's going on.

I encourage you to continue with the barley grass juice powder. These have a wide range of beneficial properties and you said your stomach distress has been reduced somewhat since you started taking it. Leafy greens and green superfoods are a completely natural part of a healthy human diet.



Primates thrive on lots of fresh fruit, leafy greens, and very small amounts of animal protein, mostly from bugs. Human physiology is pretty darn close to the primate, it's a good example to follow. I'd probably skip on the bugs but raw nuts are very effecient sources of protein. My personal favorites are walnuts and almonds. Soaking your almonds for 8-12 hours in water increases their digestibility. Chew them to a liquid before swallowing to further assist digestion. Shelled Hemp seeds are another fantastic source of protein, as well as EFA's. They're delicious and go nicely with green salads or warm cereals (steel cut oats, amaranth, quinoa, etc.).

I would highly encourage you to look into taking a good quality probiotic. This is a great way to encourage normalcy and balance in your digestive system. Natural Factors, Nature's Way, Jarrow Formulas, Wakanauga (well known for Kyolic garlic and Kyo-dophilus) and Sedona Labs all make great products that I have used myself with great results. I've also had fantastic feedback from the clients I have worked with. Plan on taking a probiotic for around 3-6 months to see the most impressive and long lasting results.

I also heartily agree with Arrowwind about minimizing liquid consumption with meals. This popular habit dilutes digestive secretions and leads to many an indigested meal. Drink a glass of water, herbal tea, or red wine about 15-20 minutes before meals to prime your stomach. After meals, don't drink large amounts of liquid for at least an hour, depending on the size of the meal. If you eat a huge meal, consider waiting as long as 2-3 hours. Better yet, avoid eating large meals. Eat only as much as you could easily hold in two cupped hands. This eases the burden on your stomach.

I mentioned this briefly with regards to the nuts but it bears repeating: Chew each bite to liquid before swallowing. This one habit can make a huge and positive impact on your digestion. Chewing is free and it aids in mixing necessary digestive enzymes only found in saliva (Amylase/ptyalin). This was noted by the article posted by Kind2Creatures about food combining.

Thanks to everybody for sharing their thoughts.
Cyber-junkie, I wish you all the best in resolving this issue.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-17-2010, 07:48 PM
cyber-junkie's Avatar
cyber-junkie cyber-junkie is offline
Inquisitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 451
cyber-junkie is on a distinguished road
Default

Spirit and Arrow

Much Thanks!!! This world needs more like you!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-17-2010, 08:21 PM
cyber-junkie's Avatar
cyber-junkie cyber-junkie is offline
Inquisitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 451
cyber-junkie is on a distinguished road
Default

Spirit
I have some "Clean-Zymes", they are plant enzymes, I can order them with the E-7 which I like and use daily, do you have any knowledge or opinion of Clean-Zymes vs. the Digest.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-18-2010, 09:50 AM
saved1986's Avatar
saved1986 saved1986 is offline
In seaerch of spicy food
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,069
saved1986 has a spectacular aura aboutsaved1986 has a spectacular aura aboutsaved1986 has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyber-junkie View Post
Hi

I did a search and found the macrobiotic diet, is this what you are talking about?

Tell me a little about this plum paste, how do you take it, what does it do and is it something you can take for extended period of time, wouldn't want to buy several ounces just to let it sit after using for a few days.

Thanks

You can by the paste or the preserved plums. Both are very very salty and you do not want large quantities. Just 1/8 teaspoon a day should help (it may take a week or 2). Also eat a red radish every day also.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-18-2010, 09:52 AM
Spirit Raintree Spirit Raintree is offline
Certified Nutritionist
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 58
Spirit Raintree is on a distinguished road
Default Enzyme comparison Clean Zymes/Digest

Hello Cyber-Junkie,

With a quick look at the ingredient list, Digest appears to be anywhere between 2 to 8 times more potent. They each have a broad range of different enzymes and the levels vary, but overall Digest is signifigantly more potent. I don't have any professional or personal familiarity with the Clean-Zyme product. It looks decent from the ingredient label, but as most of us know, supplement facts only tell part of the tale. The quality of the raw materials and the formulation make a big difference in overall effectiveness.

I would experiment a little. Try a meal you consume commonly and take one type of enzyme. Observe your bodily response. Continue to do this until you get a solid grasp on how comprehensive the enzyme support is. Try it with several types of foods; protein rich, oil rich, carbohydrate rich, etc.

The Digest product is more expensive than other enzyme products but my experience and the experience of many clients is that it ends up being a better value because it supports digestion more comprehensively. I would consider it but ultimately, the most important thing to do is modify your daily eating habits until your body no longer sends out distress signals.

In the meanwhile, if it is cost effective to try the Digest product, I'd give it a try. I have taken them off and on for many years. My digestion is really good and has gotten better since I started using them. This is true even when I don't take the enzyme. I go for weeks at a time without taking them and my digestion continues to be excellent. I think my pancreas and stomach lining enjoy the support when I do eat less than ideally, ie. cheesecake or pizza or other hard to digest foods.

Just to throw it out there, you could also consider cooking with ginger or fennel seed. Both these herbs impart a nice flavor and aid the digestive process quite nicely. Ginger is hot/spicy and fennel is licorice-like. Alternately, you can chew a few (8-10) fennel seeds after meals and that will also support digestion nicely.

Again, I hope this information helps you. Indigestion isn't much fun. I wish you the best.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-18-2010, 12:35 PM
jfh jfh is offline
perpetual student
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 5,226
jfh is a splendid one to beholdjfh is a splendid one to beholdjfh is a splendid one to beholdjfh is a splendid one to beholdjfh is a splendid one to beholdjfh is a splendid one to beholdjfh is a splendid one to beholdjfh is a splendid one to behold
Default

I guess I've just got to research the use of these plant based enzymes SpiritR. I haven't avoided enzymes; but prefer not to use them. Certainly not regularly. I do use enzymes systemically.

The enzymes cellulase and hemicellulase can cause two problems. First these break down the fibers that would normally feed the flora so you are starving the flora. Second, enzymes are catalytic and therefore are not used up in the process of digesting the fibers in this case. So you could eat a meal rich in fibers and you take cellulase and hemicellulase breaking down all that fiber in to sugar. All this before the fiber ever has a chance to reach the intestines and feed the flora. You might as well be eating straight sugar.

Meanwhile as I'm researching, I'll stick with digestive bitters. Bitters will increase your own stomach acid as well as bile and digestive enzymes, while cleansing the liver.
__________________
.
- Jim

"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched they must be felt with the heart." Helen Keller
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-23-2010, 07:57 PM
cyber-junkie's Avatar
cyber-junkie cyber-junkie is offline
Inquisitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 451
cyber-junkie is on a distinguished road
Default

Update...
It is the MMS causing the problems, I quit one thing at a time and after a few days went back, for sure it's the MMS and that's a shame, it was overall making me feel better, I have two other friends doing the MMS also and both them along with me have sick feelings around 7-9 drops, no of us really got sick, just have the feeling you are going to, maybe small doses every couple of hours, but it's been probably a week and the thought still makes me queasy.
I have started taking the Cleanzyme, yeas it's not as strong as Digest, so maybe my stomach won't get addicted to it and maybe it will help, I have noticed a little extra heartburn feeling, but maybe I will get used to it or with the additional enzymes my stomach will cool down it's production some and normalize?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-24-2010, 08:18 AM
EarlyBird EarlyBird is offline
Lecturer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern Ky.
Posts: 2,058
EarlyBird is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up Eating Walnuts and Almonds

I break up my Walnuts and Almonds into smaller pieces and grind them in a
coffee grinder to make them easier to digest. I add pecans and peanuts too
sometimes. You can grind them into sort of a paste. Yum!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-24-2010, 10:49 AM
Spirit Raintree Spirit Raintree is offline
Certified Nutritionist
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 58
Spirit Raintree is on a distinguished road
Default Healing the stomach lining

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyber-junkie View Post
Update...
It is the MMS causing the problems, I quit one thing at a time and after a few days went back, for sure it's the MMS and that's a shame, it was overall making me feel better, I have two other friends doing the MMS also and both them along with me have sick feelings around 7-9 drops, no of us really got sick, just have the feeling you are going to, maybe small doses every couple of hours, but it's been probably a week and the thought still makes me queasy.
I have started taking the Cleanzyme, yeas it's not as strong as Digest, so maybe my stomach won't get addicted to it and maybe it will help, I have noticed a little extra heartburn feeling, but maybe I will get used to it or with the additional enzymes my stomach will cool down it's production some and normalize?
Sometimes protease can cause a sharp, burny feeling if your stomach lining is a little compromised. From my understanding, that sensation is a healing response, but I don't recommend doing anything that causes stomach distress. You might want to consider going with an herbal approach. Digestive bitters, ginger, fennel seed, chamomile, peppermint, etc. That sort of option will heal without the heartburn feeling most of the time.

I'm delighted to hear that you figured out what was stimulating the discomfort. Well done. Since the MMS was working well in other ways, you may want to consider an organic form of magnesium, like kelp, black beans, almonds (raw, soaked for a few hours), or dark leafy greens.

As a supplement, my favorite is Ionic Fizz Magnesium Plus from Pure Essence Labs. I've also heard great things about Peter Gillham's Natural Calm (powdered mag. citrate).

To stimulate a healing response for your stomach lining, you could try some slippery elm bark tea or powdered slippery elm bark in organic yogurt. It tastes good for bark (go figure, eh?), and it heals compromised stomach linings quite nicely. Another option, though probably less tasty, would be marshmallow root. This can be taken by tea, capsule, or tincture.

Aloe Vera (Barbadensis Miller variety) also heals the stomach lining. I really dig the aloe option, personally. I've used Lily of the Desert whole aloe leaf juice and AloeLife aloe leaf juice with great results. AloeLife is expensive but they make a great product that doesn't stimulate a laxative response. Just stick to the recommendations (1 ounce at a time is a good rule with liquid aloe).

Thanks for the updates. Keep up the good work.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-24-2010, 12:33 PM
cyber-junkie's Avatar
cyber-junkie cyber-junkie is offline
Inquisitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 451
cyber-junkie is on a distinguished road
Default

Saved...
How do you take the plum paste? on a empty stomach or with food? can it be mixed in a health/green drink? anything else I should know about the paste?
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-28-2010, 06:21 AM
Beach Man Beach Man is offline
Reader
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 164
Beach Man has a spectacular aura aboutBeach Man has a spectacular aura about
Default

cyber-junkie,

The plum paste is used both to stimulate appetite and improve digestion. Just be aware that it is high in salt. You can read about it here:

http://www.edenfoods.com/store/produ...ucts_id=110180

and here:

http://www.edenfoods.com/store/produ...ucts_id=110180

However, if interested in purchasing, Vitacost has it for a better price:

http://www.vitacost.com/Eden-Foods-U...ngredientFacts

Also, read their Reviews of the product; if you have trouble bringing up the reviews, click on the back arrow next to the refresh tab on your toolbar at the top of the page:

http://www.vitacost.com/Eden-Foods-U...ProductReviews

Limiting meal size and the liquids consumed with your meals, as already suggested, as well as the use of a good probiotic formula and digestive enzymes with your meals, should have alleviated the problem. However, if not, you may want to try a couple of products that have worked extremely well for me. Having tried a great number of digestive enzyme formulas, including ones which contained HCL (hydrochloric acid) and always irritated my stomach, I found that this particular Pancreatin supplement digests everything, excluding the lactose in milk products (which I had eliminated from my diet for recovery purposes), without any irritation whatsoever. If lactose intolerant, add one or two Lactaid Fast Act tablets available at nearly every pharmacy, e.g., Rite-Aide, CVS, etc.:

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...jsp?id=VS-1199

Start out with the recommended dosage and take it before each meal. Then increase the number of tablets, if necessary, until you find out what works for you. As an example, I will take as many as 4 to 6 tablets for a larger meal, and have done so for years with no problem. And that's after having made a complete recovery from severe ulcerative colitis, which had me at "Death's door" in 1987! This particular product, along with the probiotic formula - and I have tried most of them, both digestive enzymes and probiotics - were key elements in my recovery.

The probiotic formula, which I consider to be one of the very best available, as well as one of the best deals for the money, is this one; be sure to click on the REVIEWS tab to see what others have to say about it:

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...jsp?id=VS-2164

Note that if they work for you, both the Pancreatin and the Ultimate '10' Probiotic come in a more economical 300 count bottle.

One other product which I found very useful in alleviating heartburn and acid irritated stomach when I was experimenting with other digestive enzyme formulas which didn't work for me, is an amazing product which has been nicknamed, "The Lining Tamer" due to its success at both preventing stomach irritation when taken 20 minutes before meals and also in providing prompt relief for stomach discomfort when taken only after such irritation is noticed. I no longer need it, but I still have a half filled old bottle. It's called DGL, which stands for "deglycyrrhizinated licorice". Although several companies produce a version, the one I have used is produced by Enzymatic Therapy, and it is now available in both regular and sugar/fructose free versions. For possibly the best price try:

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/ET029/ItemDetail?n=0

and for the sugar/fructose free version:

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/ET074/ItemDetail?n=0

The Vitamin Shoppe offers more variety, but their prices are higher all the way around:

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/search/...amins&x=17&y=6

As you probably won't need them very often, if at all, the least expensive version, either regular or sugar free, would be the way to go. Also keep in mind that if going on a trip or vacation, they are great insurance against heartburn or stomach problems from over indulgence, etc. Just take a few tablets with you in a small pocket size container. Easier, less messy, and much tastier than baking soda! Oh yes, as you will read, they're chewable (required for superior absorption) and very tasty - if you don't dislike licorice!

One other thing which may be helpful for you is this. Pay attention to your posture, especially while sitting. The idea is to keep your torso in an upright position - that is, don't scrunch down in the chair or sofa after eating as that will create compression points (or kinks) in your digestive tract which will hinder proper and prompt digestion. It can also contribute to a kickback of stomach acid up to your esophagus (especially if suffering from a small hiatal hernia), creating the burn which Arrowwind09 has already pointed out is harmful and over time can lead to esophageal cancer. Also, for similar reasons, try not to go to bed or lie down for at least four hours after eating. If you do find it necessary to lie down earlier, you may find it beneficial to lie on your left side.

Also try to get some regular exercise each day if you don't already. Simply walking for twenty minutes or more each day would be helpful, even if on a treadmill. If you have an area to put up a hang bar that you can reach up to grasp with both hands, it would also be beneficial to just hang from your hands with your legs bent at the knees to lift your feet off the floor, provided you're physically able to do so without pain or injury. Just 15 to 20 seconds a day of such hanging can provide positive results. That will help straighten out (maintain its proper alignment; it's never actually perfectly "straight") and relax your digestive pathway to facilitate proper and prompt digestion. However, do not attempt this if you suffer from any pain or injury to your back or upper body without the advice of a physician.

The late U.S. President, John Fitzgerald Kennedy (JFK), on the advice of his physician, took that a little further to help relieve the pain to his lower back from which he suffered due an old war injury (recall PT-109). While hanging, he lifted his feet off the floor by bending his legs at the knees and lifting them up toward his waist, and then forcefully kicked them down in a frog-kick motion. That helped loosen his lower back as well as decompress his spinal column. However again, he did that on the advice, actually at the recommendation, of his personal physician. It's definitely not for everyone, particularly if one suffers from torn or damaged muscles or ligaments anywhere in the arms/shoulders/upper body, etc.

You might also look into taking a Yoga class or practicing a little self-taught Yoga for a short period of time each day, or every other day, for some helpful, yet gentle, stretching exercises which most people are capable of performing without fear of injury. I believe "Hatha" Yoga is the style for such stretching exercises. There are some excellent self-help books on Yoga at your local bookstore as well as instruction videos in various formats. However, aside from routine walking, do not exercise on a full stomach. Reserve such activity for at least 2 to 4 hours (the closer to 4 hours, the better) after eating your last meal. Pre-exercise supplements per the manufacturer's supplied "Directions", taken 20 to 30 minutes or so before exercise ordinarily should pose no problem. However, in your case you might want to avoid any such supplements taken at that time before exercise until you get your digestion issues corrected.

Last edited by Beach Man; 03-02-2010 at 09:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-02-2010, 05:10 AM
Naturalman Naturalman is offline
Wellness Consultant
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 70
Naturalman is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up be tested for protein, carbohydrates, or fat digestion

I agree that Apple Cidar Vinegar, about a tablespoon in a couple ounces of water to start. If you lack stomach acid it should calm the stomach.
Secondly, I would be tested to see which I am having trouble digesting. Fats, protein, or carbohydrates. Any good RMT should be able to tell you. Or you can test yourself. For protein, grit you teeth and feel the muscle that clenches. Make a circular motion with you fingers six or seven times with some pressure. If you feel like you've just blown up a baloon you probably have trouble digesting proteins. Do the same thing under your chin area, rubbing upward with a couple of fingers, beside your throat. If there is lingering discomfort you probably have trouble digesting carbohydrates. Next, if you put some pressure in the area where you neck and shoulders meet and you feel even moderate discomfort you probably have a problem digesting fats. Use the appropriate digestive aid, without using the others.
Also, if the apple cidar vinegar brings you some relief you probably need a Hydrochloric Acid supplement.
Hope this helps.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-01-2010, 12:36 PM
cyber-junkie's Avatar
cyber-junkie cyber-junkie is offline
Inquisitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 451
cyber-junkie is on a distinguished road
Default

I have taken some of the advise here, I am using digestive aids before meals, use a little plum paste and quit the mms and stomach feels much better.

Because of the antibotics over the years and I still use some now and then, but I try to use the collodial silver and immune enhancers as much as possible for infections.

I just read an article that said much of your immune system health is in your digestive system...I can believe that, so I need to be taking probiotics also, how much and what's the best times to take them?

Also the Aloe Vera, there are a few types on the market, I don't know much about Aloe other than quite a few say it's very good to take...any suggestions to help my stomach, digestion and immune system will be appreciated.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-01-2010, 01:13 PM
Spirit Raintree Spirit Raintree is offline
Certified Nutritionist
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 58
Spirit Raintree is on a distinguished road
Default My thoughts on aloe vera juice and probiotics

Hello cyber-junkie,

Lily of the Desert makes a good aloe organic aloe vera juice. It's sold in glass bottles, which is nice, and price and availability makes it accessible. It usually retails for about 9 dollars for 32 ounces.

Start with one ounce in the morning, on an empty stomach, followed by one ounce in the evening on an empty stomach. The empty stomach assures better contact with any damaged tissue in your stomach lining and also helps with assimilation. After 3-4 days, double that amount (2 oz. am/2oz pm). That will be a solid dose without much likelihood of it stimulating a laxative response.

Their product is a whole leaf aloe, which some people don't like, but in my experience working in health food stores, it doesn't tend to stimulate a laxative response. The laxative response is the main argument for folks who don't like whole leaf aloe.

If you want to buy the cadillac of aloe vera juice, I really like Aloe Life. About twice the cost, but great stuff. Also a whole leaf aloe, I have consumed (and know many others who have as well) 4-6 ounces at a time and not run to the bathroom. The quality of the Aloe Life brand is very impressive. They have even done some small scale research work with great results. Worth taking a look at.

Probiotics can be a bit tricky. Put your focus on quality rather than strictly on culture count or any other gimmicks. I've seen great results with Kyo-dophilus, Jarrow-dophilus EPS, & Multi-dophilus by Sedona Labs. These run anywhere from 15-30 dollars and are well worth it, in my opinion. Enzymatic Therapy makes a product called Acidophilus Pearls which have a great reputation. Natren's Healthy Trinity is great but closer to 50 bucks a bottle.

Another top shelf product is Dr. Ohhira's probiotic from Essential Formulas. Feedback I've gotten is phenomenal but it is 30 bucks for 30 caps or 55 bucks for sixty. Much less expensive to buy it online, just fyi. It's much more shelf stable than most because it's packaged in the medium it is cultured in. Really great product with many years of quality research to back it up.

Because of your background of stomach issues, plan on taking the probiotic aggressively (at least max recommended dose) for at least 3-6 months. I'd take at least 2 capsules a day, one a.m., one p.m. There are so many variations in potency, it's impossible to give a definite recommendation.

Follow the dosage directions and do your research. Look around to find a wide variety of opinions and quality information and make a well informed decision.

I wish you well in your healing path. Keep up the good work. It's awesome that you are taking charge of your health.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-01-2010, 02:37 PM
cyber-junkie's Avatar
cyber-junkie cyber-junkie is offline
Inquisitor
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 451
cyber-junkie is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi Spirit Raintree

Thank you for the helpful and informative answer!
Reply With Quote
Reply
Please reply to this thread with any new information or opinions.

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
introduction, Hep C, and taking MMS on empty stomach viewfromhere Alternative Therapies 19 04-11-2013 06:04 PM
Stomach cramps and mms Vinzz Alternative Therapies 4 01-29-2012 04:00 PM
Alternative Therapy for MANY issues!! Help! antarcticsake Alternative Therapies 0 06-15-2010 03:29 PM
Genetics and Health issues Chatterbox General Discussions 0 09-03-2009 01:26 AM
Stomach virus length StormKiller Colds, Flu & Fever 1 01-04-2007 04:15 AM